Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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JordanMugen
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Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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If I'm not mistaken, are Mercedes-Benz (or 'Mercedes-AMG') creating the longest period of dominance on record in the history of Formula One and even the AIACR European Championship & AIACR World Manufacturers' Championship as well? :?:

They are going into their seventh season of being the dominant team in the sport, and will probably be the dominant team again in 2021 (when the same fundamental 2020 race cars will be used, until new chassis & budget cap regulations are introduced in 2022 which could change the competitive order). If I have my numbers right, I think such a long run of dominance is unprecedented in either Formula One or European Grand Prix Racing? =D>

I'm trying to think if any rival F1 or Grand Prix constuctors ever performed dominantly for longer than that? :?:
  • McLaren were very strong between 1984 to 1991 (eight seasons) winning seven drivers' and six constructors', however Williams-Honda beat them to the constructors' championship in 1986 & 1987, and to the drivers' championship in 1987.
  • Ferrari won five seasons of drivers' championships from 2000 to 2004, and six seasons of constructors' championships from 1999 to 2004.^
  • Williams-Renault were very strong between 1992 to 1997 (six seasons) winning four drivers' and five constuctors', however Benetton beat them to the drivers' championship in 1994 & 1995, and to the constructors' in 1995.
  • Red Bull-Renault won four drivers' and four constructors' championships from 2010 to 2013.
If I am not mistaken, this makes Mercedes' current run entering their seventh year of undefeated dominance an unprecedented and triumphant achievement of engineering excellence? =D> :D Truly amazing that after seven years, Mercedes-Benz still continues to outperform all would-be challengers!

Or were vehicles constructed by Alfa Romeo, Bugatti and Mercedes itself far more dominant than the modern day Mercedes, albeit racing in seasons of independent Grand Prixs (outside of the short-lived '25-'30 World championship &'31-'39 European championship) without over-arching championship standings (as the style of the time) ? :?:

^ Ferrari won six seasons of drivers' championships from 2000 to 2008, and eight seasons of constructors' championships from 1999 to 2008 (including McLaren's disqualification from the 2007 constructors' championship). However both McLaren and Renault defeated Ferrari to drivers' championships, winning 1999 & 2008 and 2005-2006 respectively, and indeed Ferrari were particularly uncompetitive in 2005.
Last edited by JordanMugen on Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bill
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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It's not Mercedes it's who constantly changing regulations which magically seem to favor Mercedes.from tire rule front wing change

Just_a_fan
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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As RedBull used to say when they dominated for 4 straight seasons - it's for everyone else to do a better job.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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It's a super team and their on a roll. Hard to crack them now with established techniques and modern engineering tools.

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siskue2005
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:41 pm
As RedBull used to say when they dominated for 4 straight seasons - it's for everyone else to do a better job.
Exactly, why arent anyone questioning other incompetent teams who have similar or more budget.

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Moore77
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Bill wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:47 pm
It's not Mercedes it's who constantly changing regulations which magically seem to favor Mercedes.from tire rule front wing change
Why are you so salty and constantly bicker about Mercedes and trying to sound conspiracy about everything under the sun to demean their achievements? Regardless of which team you or i support, it's undeniable that Mercedes has been getting things right. It's for others to do a better job. Sometimes read what you post.
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Mamba
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Unlike the 2008 - 2009 regulation change where literally no data was transferable the 2016 - 2017 regulation change only allowed teams to upscale what they could do under the previous regulations. There was no need to totally start from scratch like teams had to do in '09. Merc were very good aerodynamically by 2014 so it wasn't much of an issue for them to now simply upscale all they have learned with more room to work in.

Besides that they figured out the tyres well every year and more than that ever since hitting the engine jackpot after massive investment in 2014 meant they were ahead and under much less pressure to continue to seek performance gains on the engine side while the others had to catch up first. Only Ferrari had matched them since and only because they skillfully exploited an area in the regulations since clarified which stopped their power gain.

Kudos to Mercedes, but ever since 2014 not a huge amount has changed against them. Plus their competitors struggle to mount season long challenges for titles. So indeed, it's up to the others to catch them.

Manoah2u
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:52 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:41 pm
As RedBull used to say when they dominated for 4 straight seasons - it's for everyone else to do a better job.
Exactly, why arent anyone questioning other incompetent teams who have similar or more budget.
Ferrari clearly drops the ball here, and by what it seems, when they managed to 'approach', it now looks like they only managed that by 'cheating'. I'm not by any means intending to fuel that discussion here, nor am i asking for it to be continued here, i'm merely mentioning that it just shows how far the rest is off.
And that includes RedBull as well with 'arguably' the BEST aero guy around AND no longer an excuse on the engine department as Honda is a works brand AND giving them a capable power plant.

I don't want to be in the competitors shoes, nor do i even remotely believe i could do even a marginal job like they are doing, but it keeps feeling like the competition is 'only' persueing to 'catch up' to Mercedes, instead of 'one upping' them. Easier said than done, sure, but yeah, that should always be the goal.

The only possibility i'm seeing right now for a change in 'order' is 2022. Last hope for this 'era' was RedBull, but they're looking to fall short aswell. But even then, IF Mercedes does not leave in their current fashion, then they're undoubtedly also investing in 2022, so the same applies.

All i can come up with now is 'haters gonna hate'.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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They are the benchmark. It’s up to the competition to step up and beat them. Sooner or later someone will.

Their reliability is probably just a big a weapon as their performance as well.

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Pyrone89
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Mercedes may even take the all-time record of WDC's and WCC's if they keep this up. Others should do better both in engineering (Mercedes have been clearly the best in that area since 2014) and in politics/lobbying (you cannot deny all the rule changes were perfectly suited to Mercedes ever since 2014, intended or not, which is the opposite of the RBR dominance, Ferrari dominance, McLaren dominance and Williams dominance before who all had the FIA trying to pull them back instead of giving them an even bigger lead).

It wouldn't be a problem however if we had the 2 best drivers (Hamilton and Verstappen) in that car. That way we would have a mouth watering WDC fight and far behind that the very nice midfield battle we are already seeing. All would be well. The problem is with Mercedes (and also other teams) sticking with a nr. 1 + lapdog nr.2 strategy. That is what is really hurting F1, not Mercedes dominance perse. Now we are just seeing, as gamers like to call it, statpadding.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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1. Mercedes don't set the rules.
1a. Ferrari have a veto and if they thought the rules were being set for Mercedes, they'd use that veto.

2. The fact that Bottas won last week, that Mercedes didn't order him to let Hamilton through, shows there is no defined #1 / #2 in the team. If Hamilton had #1 status, there would have been scenes like Schumacher and Alonso benefitting from the team ordering their team mate to get out of the way.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Big Tea
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:25 pm
Mercedes may even take the all-time record of WDC's and WCC's if they keep this up. Others should do better both in engineering (Mercedes have been clearly the best in that area since 2014) and in politics/lobbying (you cannot deny all the rule changes were perfectly suited to Mercedes ever since 2014, intended or not, which is the opposite of the RBR dominance, Ferrari dominance, McLaren dominance and Williams dominance before who all had the FIA trying to pull them back instead of giving them an even bigger lead).

It wouldn't be a problem however if we had the 2 best drivers (Hamilton and Verstappen) in that car. That way we would have a mouth watering WDC fight and far behind that the very nice midfield battle we are already seeing. All would be well. The problem is with Mercedes (and also other teams) sticking with a nr. 1 + lapdog nr.2 strategy. That is what is really hurting F1, not Mercedes dominance perse. Now we are just seeing, as gamers like to call it, statpadding.
I am not sure the rule changes were suited to Merc. It could just appear that way because they were sharp enough to be ready to embrace or overcome them sooner than anyone else. I actually thought at the time(s) and I do not remember exactly what or why, that they were intended to baulk Merc rather than aid them, but they got around them.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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Pyrone89
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:35 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:25 pm
Mercedes may even take the all-time record of WDC's and WCC's if they keep this up. Others should do better both in engineering (Mercedes have been clearly the best in that area since 2014) and in politics/lobbying (you cannot deny all the rule changes were perfectly suited to Mercedes ever since 2014, intended or not, which is the opposite of the RBR dominance, Ferrari dominance, McLaren dominance and Williams dominance before who all had the FIA trying to pull them back instead of giving them an even bigger lead).

It wouldn't be a problem however if we had the 2 best drivers (Hamilton and Verstappen) in that car. That way we would have a mouth watering WDC fight and far behind that the very nice midfield battle we are already seeing. All would be well. The problem is with Mercedes (and also other teams) sticking with a nr. 1 + lapdog nr.2 strategy. That is what is really hurting F1, not Mercedes dominance perse. Now we are just seeing, as gamers like to call it, statpadding.
I am not sure the rule changes were suited to Merc. It could just appear that way because they were sharp enough to be ready to embrace or overcome them sooner than anyone else. I actually thought at the time(s) and I do not remember exactly what or why, that they were intended to baulk Merc rather than aid them, but they got around them.
Which ones? The wider more draggy cars? the new engine? The new anti-high rake front wing? The custom tyre adjustments? The 2021 anti- high rake cut in front of the rear wheels?

dans79
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:35 pm
I am not sure the rule changes were suited to Merc. It could just appear that way because they were sharp enough to be ready to embrace or overcome them sooner than anyone else. I actually thought at the time(s) and I do not remember exactly what or why, that they were intended to baulk Merc rather than aid them, but they got around them.
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Big Tea
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:41 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:35 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:25 pm
Mercedes may even take the all-time record of WDC's and WCC's if they keep this up. Others should do better both in engineering (Mercedes have been clearly the best in that area since 2014) and in politics/lobbying (you cannot deny all the rule changes were perfectly suited to Mercedes ever since 2014, intended or not, which is the opposite of the RBR dominance, Ferrari dominance, McLaren dominance and Williams dominance before who all had the FIA trying to pull them back instead of giving them an even bigger lead).

It wouldn't be a problem however if we had the 2 best drivers (Hamilton and Verstappen) in that car. That way we would have a mouth watering WDC fight and far behind that the very nice midfield battle we are already seeing. All would be well. The problem is with Mercedes (and also other teams) sticking with a nr. 1 + lapdog nr.2 strategy. That is what is really hurting F1, not Mercedes dominance perse. Now we are just seeing, as gamers like to call it, statpadding.
I am not sure the rule changes were suited to Merc. It could just appear that way because they were sharp enough to be ready to embrace or overcome them sooner than anyone else. I actually thought at the time(s) and I do not remember exactly what or why, that they were intended to baulk Merc rather than aid them, but they got around them.
Which ones? The wider more draggy cars? the new engine? The new anti-high rake front wing? The custom tyre adjustments? The 2021 anti- high rake cut in front of the rear wheels?
Which would have favoured Merc as they were running at the time and not other teams?
I do not remember any of the other teams protesting that it was giving Merc an advantage.
(mind, I'm old and forget things conveniently :D )
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.