Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Moore77
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:39 am
Moore77 wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:26 am
While the engine regulations stayed same from 2014 onwards, consistent development opportunities were allowed for all manufacturers until this year, which was never done before for such a long duration, just to allow the competition to catch up.
I see it completely different. Traditionally when a team dominates that domination is not finished when some other team catch up, but when FIA bans whatever solution which is providing that advantage. Brawn double diffusers, RBR blown diffusers, Ferrari free 24/7 testing, Renault mass dumper, Williams active suspensions... that's how FIA finish domination periods, banning, not waiting till someone catch up

Not this time tough, for whatever reason they've allowed Mercedes domination for 8 consecutive seasons, something which never happened before

But do you think with Brabam fan car, Williams active car or RBR with blown diffusers (just some examples) their dominance period would have been any shorter if FIA would not change the rules / ban those solutions?

Dominance periods do not depend only on team work, many teams have done a similar or even better job than Mercedes currently, only difference is for how long FIA allowed that team to enjoy the fruits of their great job, sometimes they stop it instantly, sometimes they allow it for the rest of the season, sometimes for some seasons.... and this time for 8 seasons :o
I am curious, according to you, what should FIA do? What regulation change would take the advantage away from Mercedes? We all want the Mercedes advantage to vanish. But not sure how.
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Andres125sx
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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FIA should use their sensors, data and scrutineering capabilities to learn what's Mercedes advantage (I'm sure they already know) and stop the domination

In explanation, same they've always done

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Moore77
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:00 am
FIA should use their sensors, data and scrutineering capabilities to learn what's Mercedes advantage (I'm sure they already know) and stop the domination

In explanation, same they've always done
That is already ongoing and so far, they have been unable to catch a particular area where they can cut Mercedes to size AND that cut isn't going to harm the others.

This has nothing to do with FIA not changing regulations like in the past when Ferrari and Red Bull's domination came to an end with new set of regulations. I thought you are talking about such changes and why FIA is not bringing major regulations change when you said, this is 8th year of these PU regulations.
Last edited by Moore77 on Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RZS10
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Just write some vague rule against "doing a gooder job than the others" that they can then misinterpret themselves to somehow force Mercedes to run Ferrari aero parts or something

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Andres125sx
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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e30ernest wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:01 am


They did try to ban some of Merc's tricks too such as its various implementations of FRIC, oil burning, DAS. IMO the change to limit outwash wings should have hurt Merc the most too since they were the pioneers of it in the modern era (Brawn's domination wasn't just from its DD).

The difference between your examples above and what we're seeing now is that the Mercedes team have been more agile in their reactions and able to adapt faster.

Even if the FIA tried to ban anything that is giving the Mercs a huge advantage, what would it be? There is no big thing that is giving the Mercedes that advantage.
Try harder FIA! :P

I know what you mean tough, and partially agree, but I'm sure FIA could do it much better

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SiLo
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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The longer it goes on through the more rule changes, the more people are realising that it's the other teams doing a crap job.
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El Scorchio
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:00 am
FIA should use their sensors, data and scrutineering capabilities to learn what's Mercedes advantage (I'm sure they already know) and stop the domination

In explanation, same they've always done
Why SHOULD they do that? Just for your viewing entertainment? Why should Mercedes be forced to give up the fruits of their hard work if it's legal?

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El Scorchio
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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And what if they do change the engine regs and Mercedes are still ahead? Let employees of the other teams hit their cars with wrenches or break bits of bodywork off on the grid before each race?

As SiLo has said, they have tried to pull Merc in a couple of times already but they just keep finding other development areas to exploit. What makes anyone think they won't just do the best job with any new sets of regs anyway?

I think honestly you probably have to wait for the natural dissolution of the team, when people move on or come to the end of their careers.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:51 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:00 am
FIA should use their sensors, data and scrutineering capabilities to learn what's Mercedes advantage (I'm sure they already know) and stop the domination

In explanation, same they've always done
Why SHOULD they do that? Just for your viewing entertainment? Why should Mercedes be forced to give up the fruits of their hard work if it's legal?
Because that´s what they have always done. But I should have used could instead of should, agree on that.

I was just trying to explain longest period of dominance depends on rules and politics, they change the rules at will to stop dominance of some teams, sometimes even midseason, while they allow some others for years :roll: (not thinking in Mercedes, not only in Mercedes at least).

But I have to agree Mercedes is doing great to overcome any small change in the rules FIA is doing, only that in the past FIA tried it much harder. Probably it´s a mix of both

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Fulcrum
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:17 pm
Dipesh1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:10 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:45 am
Can you be more specific on the numbers?
According to Newey himself, the Mercedes aero department is about as twice as large. However, this may have been a little exaggeration having had the opportunity to chat with RB's aero department manager; still, "substantially larger" stands.
So what do RedBull spend all their money on?
Marketing.

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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:30 pm
But I have to agree Mercedes is doing great to overcome any small change in the rules FIA is doing, only that in the past FIA tried it much harder. Probably it´s a mix of both
Probably because there are more people like me around than their used to be. I personally find it very immoral that any governing body would change rules to intentionally hinder a competitor because they are doing to well!
169 100 98 7

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Fulcrum
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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nzjrs wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:20 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:07 am
Don’t forget this list is FASTEST rather than BEST.

Not saying what they’ve done is perfect by any means but there is a distinction there that goes some way to explaining the slightly strange list they’ve come up with.
Yeah, I think it is a bit of a nothing burger to be honest.

They talked about the methodology a bit, and (I'd bet) to make normalization and comparison tractable they use only qualification data, then they asked around and found a quote to support that 'qualification is the true measure of driver pace'. Click. Publish. Now we have things for people to argue about.
The most contradictory element of the list is the fact Hulkenberg is unemployed.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:30 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:51 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:00 am
FIA should use their sensors, data and scrutineering capabilities to learn what's Mercedes advantage (I'm sure they already know) and stop the domination

In explanation, same they've always done
Why SHOULD they do that? Just for your viewing entertainment? Why should Mercedes be forced to give up the fruits of their hard work if it's legal?
Because that´s what they have always done. But I should have used could instead of should, agree on that.

I was just trying to explain longest period of dominance depends on rules and politics, they change the rules at will to stop dominance of some teams, sometimes even midseason, while they allow some others for years :roll: (not thinking in Mercedes, not only in Mercedes at least).

But I have to agree Mercedes is doing great to overcome any small change in the rules FIA is doing, only that in the past FIA tried it much harder. Probably it´s a mix of both
The only way is to change the engines significantly, I imagine. Suppose that's what they are trying to do to an extent with these new directives but the thing is the engine is such a constant and such a building block that it's a lot different and a lot more difficult than just changing aero regs (the start and end of the red bull era) or something like that. I don't think they (the FIA) are not trying any harder to change a rule- if anything they are trying harder. Mercedes have just made a better hybrid engine than anyone else and everything else can flow from that. They can do more with aero and experiment with other things (DAS etc.)as a result of it while others have to do more extreme things to try and catch up.