Immediately blaming the tyres...

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holeindalip
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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mertol wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Pirelli always with the random excuses. The curbs' fault, the number of laps' fault, the temperature's fault, low pressure's fault. Never their shitty product's fault. Tires are supposed to become slower near the end of their lives not randomly explode. They have raced at silverstone for so many years and pirelli still doesn't have a clue how to make a tire for this track.
Teams are no longer criticizing them because they are either silenced by lawyers or they saw complaining doesn't help.
All the teams declined the 2020 tires and wanted to use the 2019 tires so no one to blame but there selves....

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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mertol wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Pirelli always with the random excuses. The curbs' fault, the number of laps' fault, the temperature's fault, low pressure's fault. Never their shitty product's fault. Tires are supposed to become slower near the end of their lives not randomly explode. They have raced at silverstone for so many years and pirelli still doesn't have a clue how to make a tire for this track.
Teams are no longer criticizing them because they are either silenced by lawyers or they saw complaining doesn't help.
Remember when Vettel criticized them after his and Rosberg's blow ups in Spa? He was quickly silenced. Pirelli pay alot to FOM and FIA to provide their garbage tires that destroy the racing in F1. They are title sponsor for several races a year, and run several commercials per each race. Meanwhile the teams pay for the right to run these garbage tires, the teams should demand better.

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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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Stu wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:34 am
Why is this a thing?
The cars that experienced tyre failures had run a high number of laps on a track that had seen two safety car periods due to accidents/collisions and front wing failure. One of the drivers (Bottas) has been reporting vibration issues for several laps.
Two of the cars affected appeared to be running with blistered tyres for quite a while. Now, we KNOW that the tyre supplier recommends maximums for camber and minimums for tyre pressure, but is it a coincidence that both Mercedes suffered failures? They hadn’t been particularly pushed at all during the race, but presumably both were operating on the maximum camber allowed by Pirelli.
If DAS works as I believe it to, operation of the system for prolonged periods to “get heat into the tyres”, such as during safety car periods would have the same effect on the tyres as running with more camber, wouldn’t it??
That would make it an operational (team) issue, as opposed to a tyre manufacturer issue....
It was NOT blistering, it was pickup on the inside edge of the front right tires, the front left tires are the ones that failed. Pirelli are fully to blame, they have always been inherently weak where the sidewall connects to the tread. And they always lie and blame debris. Pirelli claimed the hard tires were good for 40 laps, even if that is true this is not the failure mode that should occur. The tires should not disintegrate, they should lose grip. Pirelli provides garbage to F1 and are destroying the racing.
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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holeindalip wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:34 pm
mertol wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Pirelli always with the random excuses. The curbs' fault, the number of laps' fault, the temperature's fault, low pressure's fault. Never their shitty product's fault. Tires are supposed to become slower near the end of their lives not randomly explode. They have raced at silverstone for so many years and pirelli still doesn't have a clue how to make a tire for this track.
Teams are no longer criticizing them because they are either silenced by lawyers or they saw complaining doesn't help.
All the teams declined the 2020 tires and wanted to use the 2019 tires so no one to blame but there selves....
The 2020 tires had terrible driving characteristics and much different aero characteristics, which would have forced the teams to develop all new aero maps for every car. Pirelli are fully to blame for providing junk to F1 since 2011(and previously actually). Their 2019ntire is the best they have ever provided, but even that isn't good enough. The drivers still can't push hard and this failure mode is unacceptable.

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mertol
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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holeindalip wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:34 pm
mertol wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Pirelli always with the random excuses. The curbs' fault, the number of laps' fault, the temperature's fault, low pressure's fault. Never their shitty product's fault. Tires are supposed to become slower near the end of their lives not randomly explode. They have raced at silverstone for so many years and pirelli still doesn't have a clue how to make a tire for this track.
Teams are no longer criticizing them because they are either silenced by lawyers or they saw complaining doesn't help.
All the teams declined the 2020 tires and wanted to use the 2019 tires so no one to blame but there selves....
Maybe the more durable tires are even shittier. The soft tires at least show pace degradation before they explode.

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SiLo
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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A lot of fast and long right handers mean that part of the tyre wall is experiencing a lot more shear movement than usual.
Felipe Baby!

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Phil
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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I honestly thought people here were informed enough to understand that these are essentially "spec" tires. They were developed according to a spec that Formula 1 wanted in order to generate some (albeit artificial) excitement during the race. If you simply had durable tires, then it would tilt the advantage towards the leading car even more. At least this way, you have a certain level of unpredictability.

One would think even the more basic fans would have loved the fact that we got some real excitement in the last 3 laps vs none at all (which would have been what we had if these tires hadn't disintegrated).
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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holeindalip
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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Phil wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:50 pm
I honestly thought people here were informed enough to understand that these are essentially "spec" tires. They were developed according to a spec that Formula 1 wanted in order to generate some (albeit artificial) excitement during the race. If you simply had durable tires, then it would tilt the advantage towards the leading car even more. At least this way, you have a certain level of unpredictability.

One would think even the more basic fans would have loved the fact that we got some real excitement in the last 3 laps vs none at all (which would have been what we had if these tires hadn't disintegrated).
Excitement or not it’s dangerous for tires to just go out like that, imagine your favorite driver going through any of the full speed corners and the tire just go for no reason at all and they go into the wall like kvyat or even harder.....

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Phil
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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Sure it's dangerous. Just as making a mistake in a corner and going into a wall. Or something breaking on the car, like the brakes failing. Or hitting the curb in a bad angle. There are hundreds if not thousands of things that can go wrong, at any one point. Tires, for obvious reasons, are more suspect to failure than others. Yes, it's not ideal if the integrity of a tire fails on multiple cars, but you could equally blame teams for not wanting the 2020 tires which - again - were designed to be more durable and stronger.

Teams will always run as close as to the limit as they can, as every tenth could make the difference between winning or losing. This includes running a tire for much longer than it was intended. It's the name of the game and Mercedes, as were others, were fully aware of the risk they were taking when running on these tires for the number of laps they did.

Unfortunately I can't get a direct quote, but on Channel 4, in an interview with Binotto, he confirmed they were not surprised with the tire failures and had instructed their drivers to take extra care with lifting through the fastest corners in order to subject the tires to less strain.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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sosic2121
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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It seems tyres are very sensitive to debris. To the point that they influence race outcome. Not to mention that it's incredibly dangerous when you loose a tyre in a flatout corner.
I think they should be just a little bit thicker to prevent them from being punctured. Seems simple solution :)

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Shrieker
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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Phil wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:50 pm
I honestly thought people here were informed enough to understand that these are essentially "spec" tires. They were developed according to a spec that Formula 1 wanted in order to generate some (albeit artificial) excitement during the race. If you simply had durable tires, then it would tilt the advantage towards the leading car even more. At least this way, you have a certain level of unpredictability.

One would think even the more basic fans would have loved the fact that we got some real excitement in the last 3 laps vs none at all (which would have been what we had if these tires hadn't disintegrated).
Strongly disagree. Bridgestones would wear down to the bare white canvas in one famous race and wouldn't fail. Not to say they never unexpectedly deflated, but certainly nowhere near as much as the pirellis have over the years.
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Phil
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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These cars have more downforce, so it's a moot point to argue how another manufacturers tires would have behaved in a different era, different regulations and different cars. Bridgestones was also never tasked to develop tires such as these.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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dans79
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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holeindalip wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:34 pm
mertol wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Pirelli always with the random excuses. The curbs' fault, the number of laps' fault, the temperature's fault, low pressure's fault. Never their shitty product's fault. Tires are supposed to become slower near the end of their lives not randomly explode. They have raced at silverstone for so many years and pirelli still doesn't have a clue how to make a tire for this track.
Teams are no longer criticizing them because they are either silenced by lawyers or they saw complaining doesn't help.
All the teams declined the 2020 tires and wanted to use the 2019 tires so no one to blame but there selves....
That's because the teams universally felt the 2020 tires where worse than the 2019 ones.
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dans79
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... e/4608851/
Pirelli elaborated: "The teams will no longer have to modify the designs of their 2020 cars, which would otherwise have been necessary to accommodate the different profile of the 2020 tyre construction.

"This will now allow the teams to continue the development of their 2020 cars – which are already at an advanced stage – uninterrupted.

"The use of the 2019 tyres also guarantees the teams stability, with the advantage of using a well-known product during the final season of the current regulations."

The rejected tyres will have been compatible with lower pressures, but sticking with the 2019 spec will likely mean they will have to be upped, as indicated by Pirelli chief Mario Isola in Abu Dhabi.

"If we stay on the current construction the only the only thing we can do, the only tool we have is pressure," Isola said.

"What is on the table is exactly this - we can stay on 2019 [tyres] accepting that pressure is raised according to the performance of the cars, and probably we have more degradation and more overheating."
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JRindt
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Re: Immediately blaming the tyres...

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Formula 1 wants tyres from Pirelli to gradually lose their grip and get slower over a certain number of laps and then fall off the cliff. That’s it. No less, no more.

They’re not supposed to delaminate. They’re not supposed to blister, grain or become risky to use at low pressures (Ironically, one of the reasons touted for yesterday’s failures was higher pressures of 25 psi for fronts, according to F1.com).
They’re certainly not supposed to deflate(as suspected for Kvyat’s crash) or explode at random.

Don’t even get me started on their wet weather tyres.

Pirelli has proven to be incapable of doing this for years now. High time for F1 to look for an alternate manufacturer.