F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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henry
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:03 am

It should be the time from the lights going out to the rear tires first movement. Easy to get it
Distort, rotate or translate?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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mcjamweasel
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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I seem to remember seeing some times on screen for 0-100km/h at the last race. I think during the normal lap 3 replays of the start. Personally I think that's a decent enough addition. No need to see it on screen for all drivers (but could be added to the app for pro users).

Heart rate could easily be added to Friday practice coverage, I don't really see it benefiting the race though. It's also the kind of data that could be added to the YouTube highlights or special videos rather than the core race coverage - it would be vaguely interesting to see what happens at certain points - i.e. a Q3 lap, the build up to the start, a wheel-to-wheel battle or a crash.

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strad
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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The reaction timer starts when the lights go out. When does it stop?
Henry.. That's been part of the discussion and I don't know that the FIA are equipped for this.
One would think that since they have an eye on just about everything that they could measure from the time the lights go out to the time the car starts rolling. However I don't think they are prepared to have light beams at every start box which is what would be needed. imo. They do have the transponders but I believe they only measure to when the rear wheels leave the box which leaves something to be desired as for R.T.
Which brings up something I have often thought about. Why is the race started when the lights go out? What was wrong with having a green light to start them?
Anyway I think it would be interesting to know who has a great reaction time and who was asleep at the wheel. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Wass85
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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One thing that is no longer shown and was very interesting was what I recall the GPS overlay? It used to have a graphic of the two fastest cars in qualifying and it was fascinating to see their differences over a lap.

bill shoe
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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I would also like to see reaction times. Rule of thumb in drag racing is that it takes at least 0.200 seconds for the driver to react, and another 0.200 seconds for the car to react. So we really want time from (1) lights-out to clutch-dump (driver reaction), and (2) clutch dump to maybe 200 mm change of position (car reaction). I think this would be achievable with current sensors on the starting system and cars.

On a personal note, I had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to watch an F1 start very close up from just inside the pit lane fencing (Ain't rich, I was a volunteer worker). I focused on peripheral vision so I could clearly see the closest 6 cars to me. When the race started, those 6 cars all left the grid in perfect lockstep, so I'm guessing the drivers all have consistently good reaction times. The occasional Vettel or Bottas blooper in the start box itself is perhaps the rare exception.

Start differences nowadays seem to come from just off the line when the driver has to match throttle/clutch torque-demand to the available track grip. But I would still like to see the reaction times.

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Andres125sx
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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henry wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:44 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:03 am

It should be the time from the lights going out to the rear tires first movement. Easy to get it
Distort, rotate or translate?
Since we´re trying to find reaction times obviously it must be the very first movement, translation will depend on traction so it would be misleading, it must be tire deformation or rim or gearbox rotation wich is easier to monitor

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Andres125sx
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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bill shoe wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:04 am
So we really want time from (1) lights-out to clutch-dump (driver reaction), and (2) clutch dump to maybe 200 mm change of position (car reaction).

That´s interesting, not sure if clutch dump should be part of the reaction times, as it´s not just about releasing the clutch, but matching the sweet spot to avoid wheelspin.

Maybe someone is the fastest to react, but then he´s not smooth and causes wheelspin... Should that be considered the best reaction time or not?

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henry
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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bill shoe wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:04 am
.

Start differences nowadays seem to come from just off the line when the driver has to match throttle/clutch torque-demand to the available track grip. But I would still like to see the reaction times.
Which is why time to some measured point after the start might be interesting, be that 60ft (is that a drag racing thing) or a speed just around traction limited. I chose 120kph it might be a little lower, say at 100kph when the MGU-K kicks in.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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You guys are discussing how to measure something that's entirely irrelevant in circuit racing. Or really any racing other than drag racing. What's the value of knowing a circuit racer's reaction time to the lights? More US-ification of F1.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:05 pm
You guys are discussing how to measure something that's entirely irrelevant in circuit racing. Or really any racing other than drag racing. What's the value of knowing a circuit racer's reaction time to the lights? More US-ification of F1.
I agree, plus there's more to a good start than just reaction times. A driver may have a super fast reaction time but then lose out by applying too much throttle and getting too much wheel spin.

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SiLo
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:05 pm
You guys are discussing how to measure something that's entirely irrelevant in circuit racing. Or really any racing other than drag racing. What's the value of knowing a circuit racer's reaction time to the lights? More US-ification of F1.
Because it's cool to see? There is literally nothing detrimental about showing it, I think it's a great idea.

More information for fans is always great.
Felipe Baby!

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AnthonyG
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:28 pm
The one thing that infuriates me is the terrible camera work, I was watching some 2000's footage of Schumacher and the sense of speed was mesmerising.
+1
I think it's also the ungainly big cars (large objects apear to move slower), lack of sound and lack of movement/twitching of the cars.
I honnestly sometimes have trouble distinguishing if a driver is driving slow/has a problem or is going flat-out.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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AnthonyG wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:26 am
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:28 pm
The one thing that infuriates me is the terrible camera work, I was watching some 2000's footage of Schumacher and the sense of speed was mesmerising.
+1
I think it's also the ungainly big cars (large objects apear to move slower), lack of sound and lack of movement/twitching of the cars.
I honnestly sometimes have trouble distinguishing if a driver is driving slow/has a problem or is going flat-out.
A big part of that is down to the terrible camera work, go and watch some race highlights from the 90's and 2000's.

It's crazy to think these are the fastest cars of all time yet we don't get the chance to appreciate them.

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SiLo
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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AnthonyG wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:26 am
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:28 pm
The one thing that infuriates me is the terrible camera work, I was watching some 2000's footage of Schumacher and the sense of speed was mesmerising.
+1
I think it's also the ungainly big cars (large objects apear to move slower), lack of sound and lack of movement/twitching of the cars.
I honnestly sometimes have trouble distinguishing if a driver is driving slow/has a problem or is going flat-out.
They should really have more stationary shots to give a sense of speed.



Imagine a proper camera and mic setup here...
Felipe Baby!

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strad
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Re: F1 should give us drivers' reaction times to the green light

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More US-ification of F1.
EW!!!! How horrible!
.
That drag racing type measurement is exactly what I would like to see.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss