New party mode regulation

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Moore77
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Re: New party mode regulation

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ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:02 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:39 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:49 pm
To me it's very odd that F1 has turned into a "charity" and is restricting PU performance development.
It's only until the 2021 season, that's three to five months time -- you make it sound like the specification is frozen forever!
It has artificially locked Mercedes as the best engine of the season when in previous years developments from spec2 and 3 would have made Honda close the gap and bring a better fight to Mercedes and a better show for Formula 1 without needing to come up with gimmicks like reverse grid.
So while Honda would have brought Spec2 and Spec3, Mercedes wouldn't have upgraded their PU?
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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Andres125sx
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Re: New party mode regulation

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ispano6 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:49 pm
To me it's very odd that F1 has turned into a "charity" and is restricting PU performance development. I feel there a is different motive to this, which is to keep Ferrari PU cars from falling back more.
In the past I also tought free development should be part of F1. Then someone told me about CanAm, wich was exactly that, a competition with no restrictions at all. Some seasons CanAm cars were faster than F1 cars. Then CanAm collapsed when most teams couldn´t compete with the big boys so they lost interest and went out of CanAm and no more teams were interested to replace them as to have a chance to compete the amount of money needed was just astronomical. Maybe it was not exactly as I said, but the important thing here is what happens with free development.

The idea of freedom to develop the fastest possible car is quite romantic, but in the real world if you want an interesting competition some limits are absolutely necessary or the competition will collapse when some big company is willing to invest more money than any other for some consecutive years.

That´s exactly what is happening in current F1 with Mercedes

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nzjrs
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Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:20 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:02 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:39 pm


It's only until the 2021 season, that's three to five months time -- you make it sound like the specification is frozen forever!
It has artificially locked Mercedes as the best engine of the season when in previous years developments from spec2 and 3 would have made Honda close the gap and bring a better fight to Mercedes and a better show for Formula 1 without needing to come up with gimmicks like reverse grid.
So while Honda would have brought Spec2 and Spec3, Mercedes wouldn't have upgraded their PU?
Oh please.

The details do matter, and as a close follower of the Honda thread, I assume ispano6 was speaking of the rather signifigant change in combustion concept that Honda could not introduce due to the covid regulation freeze, that nevertheless has been in development and ackowledged for at least 12 months.

Yes no doubt Mercedes also has things in development but your comment was lame whataboutism.

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: New party mode regulation

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nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:20 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:02 am


It has artificially locked Mercedes as the best engine of the season when in previous years developments from spec2 and 3 would have made Honda close the gap and bring a better fight to Mercedes and a better show for Formula 1 without needing to come up with gimmicks like reverse grid.
So while Honda would have brought Spec2 and Spec3, Mercedes wouldn't have upgraded their PU?
Oh please.

The details do matter, and as a close follower of the Honda thread, I assume ispano6 was speaking of the rather signifigant change in combustion concept that Honda could not introduce due to the covid regulation freeze, that nevertheless has been in development and ackowledged for at least 12 months.

Yes no doubt Mercedes also has things in development but your comment was lame whataboutism.
What sort of BS is this? If there is an open development, everybody will bring upgrades, not just Honda. Did you read his comment? He makes it as if Honda would have introduced upgrade and closed the gap. So was Mercedes potentially and so was Renault. What kind of whataboutery are you reading in this? Honda had an unfair advantage compared to other manufacturers due to different covid regulations. That doesn't necessarily mean the others didn't have their own concept in working. Because you have been reading about a particular development from Honda, you are talking about it. Besides, why should Honda get an exception? Rules should be same for everyone.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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nzjrs
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Location: Austria

Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:36 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:20 pm
So while Honda would have brought Spec2 and Spec3, Mercedes wouldn't have upgraded their PU?
Oh please.

The details do matter, and as a close follower of the Honda thread, I assume ispano6 was speaking of the rather signifigant change in combustion concept that Honda could not introduce due to the covid regulation freeze, that nevertheless has been in development and ackowledged for at least 12 months.

Yes no doubt Mercedes also has things in development but your comment was lame whataboutism.
What sort of BS is this? If there is an open development, everybody will bring upgrades, not just Honda. Did you read his comment? He makes it as if Honda would have introduced upgrade and closed the gap. So was Mercedes potentially and so was Renault. What kind of whataboutery are you reading in this? Honda had an unfair advantage compared to other manufacturers due to different covid regulations. That doesn't necessarily mean the others didn't have their own concept in working. Because you have been reading about a particular development from Honda, you are talking about it. Besides, why should Honda get an exception? Rules should be same for everyone.
Well that was a dissapointing reply.

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: New party mode regulation

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nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:41 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:36 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:25 pm


Oh please.

The details do matter, and as a close follower of the Honda thread, I assume ispano6 was speaking of the rather signifigant change in combustion concept that Honda could not introduce due to the covid regulation freeze, that nevertheless has been in development and ackowledged for at least 12 months.

Yes no doubt Mercedes also has things in development but your comment was lame whataboutism.
What sort of BS is this? If there is an open development, everybody will bring upgrades, not just Honda. Did you read his comment? He makes it as if Honda would have introduced upgrade and closed the gap. So was Mercedes potentially and so was Renault. What kind of whataboutery are you reading in this? Honda had an unfair advantage compared to other manufacturers due to different covid regulations. That doesn't necessarily mean the others didn't have their own concept in working. Because you have been reading about a particular development from Honda, you are talking about it. Besides, why should Honda get an exception? Rules should be same for everyone.
Well that was a dissapointing reply.
Did you expect some kind of ecstasy dosage?
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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nzjrs
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Austria

Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:52 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:41 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:36 pm
What sort of BS is this? If there is an open development, everybody will bring upgrades, not just Honda. Did you read his comment? He makes it as if Honda would have introduced upgrade and closed the gap. So was Mercedes potentially and so was Renault. What kind of whataboutery are you reading in this? Honda had an unfair advantage compared to other manufacturers due to different covid regulations. That doesn't necessarily mean the others didn't have their own concept in working. Because you have been reading about a particular development from Honda, you are talking about it. Besides, why should Honda get an exception? Rules should be same for everyone.
Well that was a dissapointing reply.
Did you expect some kind of ecstasy dosage?
No, but a stream of conciousness with every question you could muster isn't interesting. The details matter, and thus regualation changes which disrupt upgrade plans can (and we, with ispano6) argue may be felt more by teams with established histories of large mid-season ICE/PU upgrades (Honda), multiplied in impact by their planed combustion concept upgrade being covid-cancelled.

'But other teams have upgrades too!!!11!!' is not insightful.

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: New party mode regulation

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nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:59 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:52 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:41 pm


Well that was a dissapointing reply.
Did you expect some kind of ecstasy dosage?
No, but a stream of conciousness with every question you could muster isn't interesting. The details matter, and thus regualation changes which disrupt upgrade plans can (and we, with ispano6) argue may be felt more by teams with established histories of large mid-season ICE/PU upgrades (Honda), multiplied in impact by their planed combustion concept upgrade being covid-cancelled.

'But other teams have upgrades too!!!11!!' is not insightful.
Unlike Honda addicts, who keep rumoring around these fictitious development things, unfortunately, there aren't such addicted fans of other Manufacturers that discuss things at length and also possibly because, the other manufacturers doesn't leak so much information to the public. For example. Mercedes never lets it out as to what development they are working on for their PU, yet every time they come out, there is a history of progress being made. Just because for you something is NOT INSIGHTFUL, doesn't necessary mean, you ignore the established history of other manufacturers making progress, and assume Honda would match them.
Last edited by Moore77 on Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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nzjrs
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Austria

Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:06 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:59 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:52 pm
Did you expect some kind of ecstasy dosage?
No, but a stream of conciousness with every question you could muster isn't interesting. The details matter, and thus regualation changes which disrupt upgrade plans can (and we, with ispano6) argue may be felt more by teams with established histories of large mid-season ICE/PU upgrades (Honda), multiplied in impact by their planed combustion concept upgrade being covid-cancelled.

'But other teams have upgrades too!!!11!!' is not insightful.
Unlike Honda addicts, who keep rumoring around these fictitious development things, unfortunately, there aren't such addicted fans of other Manufacturers that discuss things at length and also possibly because, the other manufacturers doesn't leak so much information to the public. For example. Mercedes never lets it out as to what development they are working on for their PU, yet every time they come out, there is a history of progress being made. Just because for you something is NOT INSIGHTFUL, doesn't necessary mean, you ignore the established history of other manufacturers making progress, without leaking out info.
Why do you respond to things you believe I think, instead of things that I write?

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: New party mode regulation

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nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:06 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:59 pm


No, but a stream of conciousness with every question you could muster isn't interesting. The details matter, and thus regualation changes which disrupt upgrade plans can (and we, with ispano6) argue may be felt more by teams with established histories of large mid-season ICE/PU upgrades (Honda), multiplied in impact by their planed combustion concept upgrade being covid-cancelled.

'But other teams have upgrades too!!!11!!' is not insightful.
Unlike Honda addicts, who keep rumoring around these fictitious development things, unfortunately, there aren't such addicted fans of other Manufacturers that discuss things at length and also possibly because, the other manufacturers doesn't leak so much information to the public. For example. Mercedes never lets it out as to what development they are working on for their PU, yet every time they come out, there is a history of progress being made. Just because for you something is NOT INSIGHTFUL, doesn't necessary mean, you ignore the established history of other manufacturers making progress, without leaking out info.
Why do you respond to things you believe I think, instead of things that I write?
Because that is exactly what you are doing. Oh by the way, please do read posts before responding. Your response to my previous post, came within a minute and I am sure you wouldn't have read it.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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nzjrs
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Austria

Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:06 pm
Unlike Honda addicts, who keep rumoring around these fictitious development things, unfortunately, there aren't such addicted fans of other Manufacturers that discuss things at length and also possibly because, the other manufacturers doesn't leak so much information to the public. For example. Mercedes never lets it out as to what development they are working on for their PU, yet every time they come out, there is a history of progress being made. Just because for you something is NOT INSIGHTFUL, doesn't necessary mean, you ignore the established history of other manufacturers making progress, without leaking out info.
Why do you respond to things you believe I think, instead of things that I write?
Because that is exactly what you are doing. Oh by the way, please do read posts before responding. Your response to my previous post, came within a minute and I am sure you wouldn't have read it.
I read fast :wink:

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Wouter
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:36 pm
Honda had an unfair advantage compared to other manufacturers due to different covid regulations.
Besides, why should Honda get an exception? Rules should be same for everyone.

Apparently you have no idea what you are talking about.
With all factories closed in Japan in August due to mandatory holidays, the FIA has said Honda could stay open for 3 weeks in May or June while other manufacturers had to close.
So they were even able to work 1 week shorter due to the mandatory 4-week closure in the month of August.

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Moore77
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Re: New party mode regulation

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nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:11 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm


Why do you respond to things you believe I think, instead of things that I write?
Because that is exactly what you are doing. Oh by the way, please do read posts before responding. Your response to my previous post, came within a minute and I am sure you wouldn't have read it.
I read fast :wink:
If only you could also understand it as fast. :wink: Anyway, enjoy your time here.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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nzjrs
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Austria

Re: New party mode regulation

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:12 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:11 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:07 pm
Because that is exactly what you are doing. Oh by the way, please do read posts before responding. Your response to my previous post, came within a minute and I am sure you wouldn't have read it.
I read fast :wink:
If only you could also understand it as fast. :wink:
I seriously encourage you to go back and read your responses and take a (mental) highligher and highlight the parts where you read the mind of the person you are speaking to to ascertain things they believe.

My point was very narrow, that it is conceivable that the changes could disproportionately impact certain teams, and I suggested that there was good historical precident that it would be Honda based on when they do their upgrades, and the history of the CC they are working on. That is it, thats my whole point!

All the other garbage you introduced is just mind reading (omissions) by others. Its tedious.

And to go back to your first reply. 'But Muh Whatabout Mercedes' doesn't map onto my initial point. How do you not understand this?

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: New party mode regulation

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nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:16 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:12 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:11 pm


I read fast :wink:
If only you could also understand it as fast. :wink:
I seriously encourage you to go back and read your responses and take a (mental) highligher and highlight the parts where you read the mind of the person you are speaking to to ascertain things they believe.

My point was very narrow, that it is conceivable that the changes could disproportionately impact certain teams, and I suggested that there was good historical precident that it would be Honda based on when they do their upgrades, and the history of the CC they are working on. That is it, thats my whole point!

All the other garbage you introduced is just mind reading (omissions) by others. Its tedious.
Oh boy. Another one that gets worked up quickly. I suggest you clearly read my post and it's not for me to keep repeating what I have written. If you want to get stuck in your web of thoughts, I am not going to pull you out. You are repeating your BS without any point. Oh, a friendly suggestion. Keep emotions in check, it's not good for your health. :wink:
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.