Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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Will FIA really be able to police the budget cap?

Yes
6
18%
No
27
82%
 
Total votes: 33

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jjn9128
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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I like Frank Dernie's suggestion that the team pay the driver another couple million (outside the budget cap) and they then personally employ all the mechanics for their car.
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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If I were a driver, I wouldn't want to employ me mechanics directly. It's a great cheat for the team but the liability it lumps on the driver is silly.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:49 pm
I like Frank Dernie's suggestion that the team pay the driver another couple million (outside the budget cap) and they then personally employ all the mechanics for their car.
Surely the FIA just state all people working at the circuit or at the factory have to be employed by the team. problem solved.
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:49 pm
I like Frank Dernie's suggestion that the team pay the driver another couple million (outside the budget cap) and they then personally employ all the mechanics for their car.
It sounds to me like Frank Dernie is (as they say in the UK) taking the piss. Either the sport is serious about cost control or it isn't.
Personally I would have liked the driver salaries to be included in the cost cap, not excluded.

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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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I wonder what they will do with knowledge and studies done already within the company. Daimler has the biggest advantage here, with Renault, FIAT and HAAS closely following. Or, for the teams with a big company behind them, starting a China, India or Taiwan base with lower costs.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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Didn´t participate in the poll because I don´t think it will be yes or no. I think teams will continue finding ways to invest more money than what FIA is trying to allow, but even so the investment will be much lower than currently so all teams will be closer in the track wich is the real intention. Edit: with all teams I mean Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR wich are the only teams who will need to adapt to the cap as the rest are already complying

With time FIA will probably enforce the cost cap more strictly, but teams will also need some time to reconfigure their factories and personel so I think it´s sensible for FIA to not be too strict at first
Last edited by Andres125sx on Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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subcritical71 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:09 pm
The FIA have too often shown they don’t have interest in enforcing their own rules.
FIA always do what they think is better for the competition, even if many of us disagree :mrgreen:

The cost cap is a must to keep interest of manufacturers in F1 as the cost of entering F1 is just too high, so FIA think (as most of us) that a cost cap is a must.

But not sure how strict they will be, maybe they let the teams explode some loopholes in first season or seasons to not change things so drastically

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Andres125sx
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:08 am
I wonder what they will do with knowledge and studies done already within the company. Daimler has the biggest advantage here, with Renault, FIAT and HAAS closely following. Or, for the teams with a big company behind them, starting a China, India or Taiwan base with lower costs.
Don´t think they should do anything. There´s a big rule change so anything learnt now will be useful only for first months of the new ruleset. Once they gain some experience with the new cars past knownledge will be obsolete so no point trying to police this.

In F1 few things are usefull for more than a few months or a season as much, at least when there´s a huge rule change.

Jolle
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:29 am
Jolle wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:08 am
I wonder what they will do with knowledge and studies done already within the company. Daimler has the biggest advantage here, with Renault, FIAT and HAAS closely following. Or, for the teams with a big company behind them, starting a China, India or Taiwan base with lower costs.
Don´t think they should do anything. There´s a big rule change so anything learnt now will be useful only for first months of the new ruleset. Once they gain some experience with the new cars past knownledge will be obsolete so no point trying to police this.

In F1 few things are usefull for more than a few months or a season as much, at least when there´s a huge rule change.
I think Daimler and others have a big library on extreme material behaviour, suspension kinetics, etc etc. The details that are very pricy.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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And what do you think FIA can do at the respect?

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mcjamweasel
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:17 am
I think teams will continue finding ways to invest more money than what FIA is trying to allow, but even so the investment will be much lower than currently so all teams will be closer in the track wich is the real intention.
This exactly. Even if Merc or Ferrari manage to find an extra 10% to spend (and that would be a massive amount to hide), that will still leave them far below the level that they're at now and much, much closer to the rest of the field.

The big teams are the ones who will be able to benefit from creative accounting, and they are also the ones who stand to lose the most from being caught doing so.

Another thing to consider is the knock on effects of being caught out. If you're working at the HMRC or IRS and you hear about Mercedes being caught cheating some financial regulations you'll be mobilising your auditing swat team in less time than it takes to lap the Bahrain 'oval'.

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Big Tea
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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How do shares bonuses get included in this?

For instance, an engineer gets a salary of £X, plus bonuses of y per point (or how ever they calculate) plus at year end Z number of company shares, usually with a grantee buy back rate.

If the option becomes as above, but on parting a bonus of z shares for each year worked? Not paid out but promised for when they are no longer payroll
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jjn9128
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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gshevlin wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:52 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:49 pm
I like Frank Dernie's suggestion that the team pay the driver another couple million (outside the budget cap) and they then personally employ all the mechanics for their car.
It sounds to me like Frank Dernie is (as they say in the UK) taking the piss. Either the sport is serious about cost control or it isn't.
Personally I would have liked the driver salaries to be included in the cost cap, not excluded.
He was just pointing something out which doesn't seem to have been considered. Driver salary isn't included in the cap so save money by lumping staff to them.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Big Tea
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:32 pm
gshevlin wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:52 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:49 pm
I like Frank Dernie's suggestion that the team pay the driver another couple million (outside the budget cap) and they then personally employ all the mechanics for their car.
It sounds to me like Frank Dernie is (as they say in the UK) taking the piss. Either the sport is serious about cost control or it isn't.
Personally I would have liked the driver salaries to be included in the cost cap, not excluded.
He was just pointing something out which doesn't seem to have been considered. Driver salary isn't included in the cap so save money by lumping staff to them.
There is the possibility then that what we today call a 'driver transfer' would include driver, phisio and health, legal and financial plus the pitcrew, tactician, and several more 'personal crew'.

It would be fun swapping drivers in and out of Ferrari, but defiantly a proposition. When you take your road car to the garage, they supply all disciplines.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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mem
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Re: Budget cap: tricks and cheats

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INEOS or not, the right thing for mercs now to start selling shares they will start the decline next year with the reversed grid or in 2022 with the spending cap , FIA determine to slow them and they will eventually.
selling high is a smart business Daimler happy Toto happy.
hopefully that will make them lose sharpness i think its very fair for them 7 titles or 8 thats more than enough.

sure there will be Budget cap tricks and cheats but it will remain tight compare to now.