Vettel's 4 vs Hamilton's 6.

[aMessageToCharlie]

What usually happens is that a few people specifically set out to downplay certain drivers that they dislike, even going so far as to call other drivers "the worst driver ever" in order to push their agenda. See how it goes both ways?

As to people suggesting that drivers become the head of companies or countries, well that is a bit silly. Of course, there isn't a current driver who could legally become the President of the USA, so that idea is dead before it starts.

Can you explain this "agenda" you keep refering to, please? I dont understand. Thanks.

I think you fully understand it.

Astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

How could anyone have a rational discussion with you guys, when this how you argue?
Thanks for proving my point.

[dans79]

Can you explain this "agenda" you keep refering to, please? I dont understand. Thanks.

I think you fully understand it.

Astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

How could anyone have a rational discussion with you guys, when this how you argue?
Thanks for proving my point.

You are honestly going to sit there and say you have no idea what some anti-fans agendas are?

[El Scorchio]

Can you explain this "agenda" you keep refering to, please? I dont understand. Thanks.

I think you fully understand it.

Astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

How could anyone have a rational discussion with you guys, when this how you argue?
Thanks for proving my point.

Take a look back at this thread. You yourself made the reference on page 24 which serves as a good example. (26 Jan 2021, 20:35) I am sure you can work it out from that.
I'm not going to get drawn into the same old discussion about it again so I'll leave that one there.

[the EDGE]

The point of forums is to have fun discussing things & maybe learn something along the way... when the exercise no longer brings you enjoyment I suggest you should probably walk away

FYI, it is easier to change the weather than the mind of someone else

[aMessageToCharlie]

I think you fully understand it.

Astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

How could anyone have a rational discussion with you guys, when this how you argue?
Thanks for proving my point.

You are honestly going to sit there and say you have no idea what some anti-fans agendas are?

What is an "anti-fan" even? I'm honestly starting to think you're just trolling at this point.

[dans79]

You are honestly going to sit there and say you have no idea what some anti-fans agendas are?

What is an "anti-fan" even? I'm honestly starting to think you're just trolling at this point.

The first google result.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anti-fan

A person who dislikes something (generally a creative work, fictional character, or person), but is still interested in it, devoting time to mocking or criticizing it.

[Just_a_fan]

The point of forums is to have fun discussing things & maybe learn something along the way... when the exercise no longer brings you enjoyment I suggest you should probably walk away

FYI, it is easier to change the weather than the mind of someone else

We can all have discussions, even quite intense ones, if we maintain a sense of humour. We can take the mickey out of each other whilst doing it too, so long as we don't make it personal. Sadly, some people do resort to ad hominem rather quickly.

[the EDGE]

The point of forums is to have fun discussing things & maybe learn something along the way... when the exercise no longer brings you enjoyment I suggest you should probably walk away

FYI, it is easier to change the weather than the mind of someone else

We can all have discussions, even quite intense ones, if we maintain a sense of humour. We can take the mickey out of each other whilst doing it too, so long as we don't make it personal. Sadly, some people do resort to ad hominem rather quickly.

Exactly.. play the ball... not the man

[aMessageToCharlie]

You are honestly going to sit there and say you have no idea what some anti-fans agendas are?

What is an "anti-fan" even? I'm honestly starting to think you're just trolling at this point.

The first google result.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anti-fan

A person who dislikes something (generally a creative work, fictional character, or person), but is still interested in it, devoting time to mocking or criticizing it.

Honest question:
Looking at his latest comments in this thread, wouldn't that then make "PlatinumZealot" an anti-fan too? Why is nobody calling him a "hater" or questioning his "agenda"?

I feel like there's a systematic discrimination going on against people for being in the wrong camp and generally everybody should try and be a little less sensitve and emotional around here.

[dans79]

Honest question:
Looking at his latest comments in this thread, wouldn't that then make "PlatinumZealot" an anti-fan too? Why is nobody calling him a "hater" or questioning his "agenda"?

You need to be careful calling out specific users, as that can get you in hot water quick with the moderators.

With that being said, many members get run up regularly for minor transgressions, and it takes a lot to get put in the moderation queue, a temporary ban, let alone a permanent ban.

I feel like there's a systematic discrimination going on against people for being in the wrong camp and generally everybody should try and be a little less sensitive and emotional around here.

I have to disagree on both points.

I generally subscribe to the Road House be nice methodology. But over the last few years the forum has seen an influx of people who think they can just pop in and spew whatever garbage they feel like. As i've said, we saw plenty of classicism, xenophobia, and overt racism during the 2020 season here.

Many of the people doing it, claimed they were being discriminated against, or being manhandled. Perhaps if some of them had been nicer less hostile human beings to begin with they wouldn't have had so many issue with other users.

If you nice to start with you usually don't have to worry about people being sensitive or emotional.

[Just_a_fan]

I feel like there's a systematic discrimination going on against people for being in the wrong camp and generally everybody should try and be a little less sensitve and emotional around here.

I can't speak for others, but I'm happy to discuss/argue with you. The only caveat is that it doesn't get personal. I've had some forum members do insults after 2 or 3 posts. That does no one any favours and gets threads shut down - which is probably the desire of that poster.

I'm not trying to change minds but I will argue what I think is misinformation. If someone shows me that I'm wrong then I'll take that on board. I just ask others to do the same.

[ringo]

The topic was created out of sheer frustration if I am to be completely honest. Anyone who says Max or George are better than Lewis today or Sebastian are just crazy in my opinion. How can something proven be inferior to something yet unproven?

The Hamilton hate is childish these days and fashionable as it was from 2010-13 and from 2000-04. I just thought Brundle was part of that hate brigade and I stick with my opinion. Fair play to those that agree with him, I don't.

And for me personally, years like 2010, 2012, 2018 etc are years I genuinely don't know which the quicker car was because I didn't drive either or engineer both. Fan theories are just that, fan theories (fed by pundits with own agendas.)

One thing I do believe after having watched the sport from 1994 to this day is that F1 desperately needs a level playing field. I have a lot of friends suddenly who are interested in F1 thanks to the Netflix doc. but I cannot explain anything to them in detail about the achievements of these great champions and even the ones with near miss because they find it unbelievable that one person can have better equipment than another and by that margin.

After explaining to them in some kind of detail, they believe the heroes and champions are the teams and none of the drivers in relation to the competition. Just amazing athletes driving amazing cars for champion teams.

It is up to F1 to end such threads for the future.

What i can say on this is that F1 is a sport that chases marginal gains, no matter how small. The driver is part of the 100% effort in the championship and teams will pay to have that differential between them and the competition.
So even if the car is the best car in the field, if one driver can bring an average of 5% more performance over the season, the team's data will go with that driver. A driver who can only bring 3% but on some days bring 10% may not be selected over the more consistent driver. So yeas the championships are for the cars and team, but the driver has it all in his hands over those 305km per race. He can add his 3% to the total effort, or bin the car in the wall and eliminate it all. He may even choose to spin a few times as well and dash the team's efforts down the drain.

[Kingshark]

I feel like there's a systematic discrimination going on against people for being in the wrong camp and generally everybody should try and be a little less sensitve and emotional around here.

The reason why people are sensitive it obvious.

Whenever someone (correctly) points out that the hybrid era absolutely sucks and that Formula 1 from 2014-2021 is the least competitive it has ever been, some Hamilton fan will inevitably pop up to defend this era and act as if the sport is healthy.

That is because Hamilton fans perceive an attack on the current era of F1 as an attack on Hamilton’s achievements.

In my eyes, statistics in F1 are borderline meaningless. The concept of the WDC lost an enormous amount of credibility when Ricciardo easily beat Vettel in 2014 and it still hasn’t recovered.

I hope that the WDC can regain some credibility and meaning in 2022 when Mercedes can no longer outspend the midfield teams by $250m per year.

[aMessageToCharlie]

I agree. Unfortunately Hamilton will likely be gone by 2022 so we'll never know just how good he really is in comparison to other top drivers of this generation.

[the EDGE]

I feel like there's a systematic discrimination going on against people for being in the wrong camp and generally everybody should try and be a little less sensitve and emotional around here.

The reason why people are sensitive it obvious.

Whenever someone (correctly) points out that the hybrid era absolutely sucks and that Formula 1 from 2014-2021 is the least competitive it has ever been, some Hamilton fan will inevitably pop up to defend this era and act as if the sport is healthy.

That is because Hamilton fans perceive an attack on the current era of F1 as an attack on Hamilton’s achievements.

In my eyes, statistics in F1 are borderline meaningless. The concept of the WDC lost an enormous amount of credibility when Ricciardo easily beat Vettel in 2014 and it still hasn’t recovered.

I hope that the WDC can regain some credibility and meaning in 2022 when Mercedes can no longer outspend the midfield teams by $250m per year.

I’m a big Hamilton Fan (not really a Merc fan, but have nothing against them)

I also think the hybrid engines were an unnecessary mistake, mainly because of the unnecessary weight it added to the car. This along with Bio-degradable tyres that have pretty much done the exact opposite of what was intended & the current aero regs that only served to increase upwash preventing cars running close have killed racing in F1

None of the above however is why Merc has won the last 7 championships, that is because they have simply done a better job than others

They built the best engine, they went low rake when others went high, they got on top of understanding the tyre

As for money, Ferrari have actually been the biggest spender in F1 with Merc and Redbull close behind, so you can’t say they bought the titles either, they simply did a better job with their budget