Reverse gear

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GM7
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Reverse gear

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Looking at the 2022 technical regulation and especially the article 9.8 "Reverse gear" i was wondering one thing...

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Could a F1 Team used the electrical engine in order to drive the 1st gear backward ? The car would technicaly be able to be driven in reverse and the team could save a lot of weight using a full electric reverse.

What is your opinion about it ?

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: Reverse gear

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GM7 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:48 am
Could a F1 Team used the electrical engine in order to drive the 1st gear backward ? The car would technicaly be able to be driven in reverse and the team could save a lot of weight using a full electric reverse.
yes of course
this is 4-quadrant hardware that at present is only called by the control software to work over 2 quadrants
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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henry
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Re: Reverse gear

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Would the ICE and all of it's ancillaries be happy to run backwards?
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Jolle
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Re: Reverse gear

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GM7 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:48 am
Looking at the 2022 technical regulation and especially the article 9.8 "Reverse gear" i was wondering one thing...

https://zupimages.net/up/20/51/3r56.png

Could a F1 Team used the electrical engine in order to drive the 1st gear backward ? The car would technicaly be able to be driven in reverse and the team could save a lot of weight using a full electric reverse.

What is your opinion about it ?
If you want the the car to reverse using an excising electric motor in the car you would need to decouple it from the ICE, this would add weight and another part that can fail. Adding another electric motor would mean the same.
Reverse gears on gearboxes don’t add a lot of weight, are non-performance parts and probably didn’t change much since the nineties. They are cheap, if they don’t work or break its no biggy etc.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Reverse gear

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GM7 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:48 am
Looking at the 2022 technical regulation and especially the article 9.8 "Reverse gear" i was wondering one thing...

https://zupimages.net/up/20/51/3r56.png

Could a F1 Team used the electrical engine in order to drive the 1st gear backward ? The car would technicaly be able to be driven in reverse and the team could save a lot of weight using a full electric reverse.

What is your opinion about it ?
The water pump and oil pumps! Oh God! won't they think about the pumps?!
The engine may be safe to reverse for a short time, but other things will only work in one direction.
You could put little local gear sets to allow this, but a reverse gear would still be lighter and less complicated.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Reverse gear

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:44 pm
If you want the the car to reverse using an excising electric motor in the car you would need to decouple it from the ICE
why ?

Jolle
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Re: Reverse gear

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:10 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:44 pm
If you want the the car to reverse using an excising electric motor in the car you would need to decouple it from the ICE
why ?
Because the MHU-K is geared to the crank. If the electric motor would go in reverse, so would the crank. Of course you could do this, but I don’t think you want to suck a few cranks of air through the exhaust into the combustion chamber.

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Big Tea
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Re: Reverse gear

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:27 pm
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:10 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:44 pm
If you want the the car to reverse using an excising electric motor in the car you would need to decouple it from the ICE
why ?
Because the MHU-K is geared to the crank. If the electric motor would go in reverse, so would the crank. Of course you could do this, but I don’t think you want to suck a few cranks of air through the exhaust into the combustion chamber.
with 'reverse gear engaged' would the engine be turning backwards?
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Jolle
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Re: Reverse gear

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:31 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:27 pm
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:10 pm

why ?
Because the MHU-K is geared to the crank. If the electric motor would go in reverse, so would the crank. Of course you could do this, but I don’t think you want to suck a few cranks of air through the exhaust into the combustion chamber.
with 'reverse gear engaged' would the engine be turning backwards?
With a reverse gear anyway... what’s the point to have it electric? Reverse gear is there because it’s in the rules, only to be used in emergencies by the drivers (because it’s fragile).

I assumed the reason to thought in the question was, why not ditch the reverse gear and just use the K motor? The answer to that is: you need a reverse gear.

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Big Tea
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Re: Reverse gear

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:31 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:27 pm


Because the MHU-K is geared to the crank. If the electric motor would go in reverse, so would the crank. Of course you could do this, but I don’t think you want to suck a few cranks of air through the exhaust into the combustion chamber.
with 'reverse gear engaged' would the engine be turning backwards?
With a reverse gear anyway... what’s the point to have it electric? Reverse gear is there because it’s in the rules, only to be used in emergencies by the drivers (because it’s fragile).

I assumed the reason to thought in the question was, why not ditch the reverse gear and just use the K motor? The answer to that is: you need a reverse gear.
Quite right, but what I had in mind when I read reverse is going to be required was to have a means for the driver to get a broken car off the track. most of the exits seem to be behind the barier and the car can reverse into it cleaaring the track
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

Jolle
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Re: Reverse gear

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:37 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:34 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:31 pm


with 'reverse gear engaged' would the engine be turning backwards?
With a reverse gear anyway... what’s the point to have it electric? Reverse gear is there because it’s in the rules, only to be used in emergencies by the drivers (because it’s fragile).

I assumed the reason to thought in the question was, why not ditch the reverse gear and just use the K motor? The answer to that is: you need a reverse gear.
Quite right, but what I had in mind when I read reverse is going to be required was to have a means for the driver to get a broken car off the track. most of the exits seem to be behind the barier and the car can reverse into it cleaaring the track
In theory a nice idea, but that would mean that they have to change the whole way they operate the car. All is controlled by hydraulic pressure (gearbox, throttle, clutch, etc etc) for which the ICE has to run.
And besides that, even now if they retire a running car, they tend not to reverse it behind the barrier. If somehow it became rule, the best option would be a separate system on the diff with a gear like a starter motor and a complete separate system in the cockpit.