Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Restomaniac
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:00 am
Restomaniac wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:36 pm
ThumbsUp wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:10 pm


The same for Bottas with the Ferrari PU. He also stays connected to The Mercedes family.

The teams are putting drivers at different constructors everywhere. But does it really matter since all the engines will be frozen? Or can they still get more performance with updates upcoming seasons?
It isn’t just the PU. New racing spec series and shared tech between Mercedes and Williams. The info could be priceless.
What about info going the other way ? If Albon is capable of taking technical info in one direction, surely it could go the other way too. He's still well involved with RedBull so he must have something he could take to Williams to help Williams out. It's in his interest to help the team he is racing for so he can look better as he's in the shop window. If he gets caught taking any info to RedBull, surely that lands him and RedBull in a huge amount of trouble.
The problem is that any details he learns now will be next to useless next season due to the regs changes. Anything he learns next year in a new set of regs could be very nice for RedBull.

I’m not saying he will or could but it was certainly what Toto was thinking.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Restomaniac wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:54 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:00 am
Restomaniac wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:36 pm
It isn’t just the PU. New racing spec series and shared tech between Mercedes and Williams. The info could be priceless.
What about info going the other way ? If Albon is capable of taking technical info in one direction, surely it could go the other way too. He's still well involved with RedBull so he must have something he could take to Williams to help Williams out. It's in his interest to help the team he is racing for so he can look better as he's in the shop window. If he gets caught taking any info to RedBull, surely that lands him and RedBull in a huge amount of trouble.
The problem is that any details he learns now will be next to useless next season due to the regs changes. Anything he learns next year in a new set of regs could be very nice for RedBull.

I’m not saying he will or could but it was certainly what Toto was thinking.
Yeah good points. RedBull will have to be careful they dont document any info taken across. We all know what happened to Mclaren all those years ago. I would guess Alex is professional enough to not get involved in any mess like that. Any driver who gets involved with cheating like that should have no place in the sport. Alex will be fine IMO
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codetower
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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You know what has been one of the most entertaining things this season? Watching all the bluffs and the mind-games being played between Mercedes and Red Bull. All the in-race radio messages about tires being rubbish, and not being able to make it till the end… the rear wing being too flexi, the front wing being to flexi, “Your car is way faster than mine, we’re just playing catch up”. This week they are bluffing about the 4th engine swap to see who swaps first. And now it's to see which team double-agent Albon is REALLY working for.

As a fan of neither RBR or MERC, it's entertaining watching this from the sidelines.

Restomaniac
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:10 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:54 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:00 am


What about info going the other way ? If Albon is capable of taking technical info in one direction, surely it could go the other way too. He's still well involved with RedBull so he must have something he could take to Williams to help Williams out. It's in his interest to help the team he is racing for so he can look better as he's in the shop window. If he gets caught taking any info to RedBull, surely that lands him and RedBull in a huge amount of trouble.
The problem is that any details he learns now will be next to useless next season due to the regs changes. Anything he learns next year in a new set of regs could be very nice for RedBull.

I’m not saying he will or could but it was certainly what Toto was thinking.
Yeah good points. RedBull will have to be careful they dont document any info taken across. We all know what happened to Mclaren all those years ago. I would guess Alex is professional enough to not get involved in any mess like that. Any driver who gets involved with cheating like that should have no place in the sport. Alex will be fine IMO
I agree and I’ve at no point outright said he will but I can totally see Toto Wolff’s point. Even more so when you consider how much sharing that clearly goes back and forth between Mercedes and a partner who actively buys more than just the PU.

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Restomaniac wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:25 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:10 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:54 pm
The problem is that any details he learns now will be next to useless next season due to the regs changes. Anything he learns next year in a new set of regs could be very nice for RedBull.

I’m not saying he will or could but it was certainly what Toto was thinking.
Yeah good points. RedBull will have to be careful they dont document any info taken across. We all know what happened to Mclaren all those years ago. I would guess Alex is professional enough to not get involved in any mess like that. Any driver who gets involved with cheating like that should have no place in the sport. Alex will be fine IMO
I agree and I’ve at no point outright said he will but I can totally see Toto Wolff’s point. Even more so when you consider how much sharing that clearly goes back and forth between Mercedes and a partner who actively buys more than just the PU.
RedBull already has a ton of “user info” from Perez, who drove the Mercedes PU for years.

Restomaniac
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:27 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:25 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:10 pm


Yeah good points. RedBull will have to be careful they dont document any info taken across. We all know what happened to Mclaren all those years ago. I would guess Alex is professional enough to not get involved in any mess like that. Any driver who gets involved with cheating like that should have no place in the sport. Alex will be fine IMO
I agree and I’ve at no point outright said he will but I can totally see Toto Wolff’s point. Even more so when you consider how much sharing that clearly goes back and forth between Mercedes and a partner who actively buys more than just the PU.
RedBull already has a ton of “user info” from Perez, who drove the Mercedes PU for years.
PU data is a moving target and it’s more than just that anyway. It’s shared info with Mercedes and Williams close partnership in other areas.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... vqz8m.html

If Williams are going to design around these bits then they won’t be a million miles away from Mercedes in what is a very constricted amount of deviation from the ‘standard’ anyway. It’s looking like in 2022 what is under the hood is going to be the biggest altering factor for the first time in a while.

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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RedNEO wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:22 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:42 pm
Allright

So this is the current driver lineup for 2022 (Blue changed, Red open):

Mercedes : Hamilton & Russell
RedBull : Verstappen & Perez
Ferrari : LeClerc & Sainz
Mclaren : Norris & Ricciardo
Aston Martin : Vettel & Stroll
Alpha Tauri : Gasly & Tsunoda
Alfa Romeo : Bottas & De Vries (?) / Schumacher (?)
Williams : Latifi & Albon
Haas : Mazepin & Schumacher (?) / Giovanazzi (?)
I take it this is an alternate multi-verse where Alpine got snapped?
darnit, last time i made Sainz drive two cars, now i completely skip Alpine :lol: :lol:
I need vacation.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

DChemTech
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:52 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:22 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:42 pm
Allright

So this is the current driver lineup for 2022 (Blue changed, Red open):

Mercedes : Hamilton & Russell
RedBull : Verstappen & Perez
Ferrari : LeClerc & Sainz
Mclaren : Norris & Ricciardo
Aston Martin : Vettel & Stroll
Alpha Tauri : Gasly & Tsunoda
Alfa Romeo : Bottas & De Vries (?) / Schumacher (?)
Williams : Latifi & Albon
Haas : Mazepin & Schumacher (?) / Giovanazzi (?)
I take it this is an alternate multi-verse where Alpine got snapped?
darnit, last time i made Sainz drive two cars, now i completely skip Alpine :lol: :lol:
I need vacation.
The French waved the white flag. Fits the meme ;)

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:27 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:25 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:10 pm


Yeah good points. RedBull will have to be careful they dont document any info taken across. We all know what happened to Mclaren all those years ago. I would guess Alex is professional enough to not get involved in any mess like that. Any driver who gets involved with cheating like that should have no place in the sport. Alex will be fine IMO
I agree and I’ve at no point outright said he will but I can totally see Toto Wolff’s point. Even more so when you consider how much sharing that clearly goes back and forth between Mercedes and a partner who actively buys more than just the PU.
RedBull already has a ton of “user info” from Perez, who drove the Mercedes PU for years.
yes, but Albon gets to drive a car with 22-spec chassis.
Perez is valuable now. and his 'up to date' engine experience for the engine itself, indeed.

Which LIKELY helps in RBR making a jump in performance. Or, let's say the jump is just that (little) bit bigger, which in Zandvoort fe. could be why Max is less than 7 hundreds of a second in front of Hamilton instead of a thousand of a second behind.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:41 pm
ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:05 pm
What if Albon destroys latifi even more thant George did? and keeps putting the williams where it doesnt belong because latifi is putting it lowere than it really does?
What if Latifi destroys Albon?
It may make use question how good Max is vs George.
You really don't like Russell, do you? :lol:
Latifi destroying Albon would not suggest that. :wink:
depending on which way things go it would mean Max or George is overrated. haha
For Sure!!

LHamilton
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Seemingly no Hulkenberg on the grid next year. So we can write him off from the second Alfa seat, even if it were a longshot given the rumours.

A bit of a shame that a person who is better than half of the grid doesn't get a drive. I do wonder if it was a question of demanding to much money to drive.

Let's see where he finds himself next year.

DChemTech
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Demanding too much or not bringing enough? It seems that without manufacturer backing or a sugar daddy, there are few options. And despite very decent skills, he currently has neither.

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codetower
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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LHamilton wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:33 pm
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 3392035840

Seemingly no Hulkenberg on the grid next year. So we can write him off from the second Alfa seat, even if it were a longshot given the rumours.

A bit of a shame that a person who is better than half of the grid doesn't get a drive. I do wonder if it was a question of demanding to much money to drive.

Let's see where he finds himself next year.
Shame indeed. But it has been the case before. If you have money, or good sponsors, you can buy a drive. Giovinazzi isn't the best driver on the grid, for sure, but next year there will be a handful of drivers that are below his skill level who are in because of their [family] contributions, or name. Looks like Zhou will get that final seat at Alfa.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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DChemTech wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:37 pm
Demanding too much or not bringing enough? It seems that without manufacturer backing or a sugar daddy, there are few options. And despite very decent skills, he currently has neither.
Hulkenberg had a 2020 Haas offer, with a salary (perhaps at ~1.5m EUR/season, similar to Magnussen's and Grosjean's wages at Haas), but turned it down. Once out of F1, it is difficult to get back in.

It seems unreasonable that Hulkenberg would demand a higher salary or more competitive car than multiple podium winner Grosjean, but that seems to have been the case. :|

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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To worsen matters of Hulks return, he was a "vanilla" driver. Nothing bad about him, and nothing too remarkable either. Not huge returns of having him. He was expert points collector, but it was reported that he was bitter with Alpine on his way out. Anyone remember if it was salary related?
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