Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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matt_b
matt_b
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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MKlaus wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:14 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:39 am
It will be a new era and the Willams surely can't be as bad as it is now can it? They stared the Hybrid era on a very good foot,
succumbing to large scale change in design philosophy of the car in 2017 (probably the worst decision ever for them) and they have been paying the price ever since. Now they do seem to have a better direction just based on the nature of the little ulgrades I saw them do from the first to the second race. The were more direct in addressing weak areas in the floor and diffuser by precise shifts in some of the elelments on the floor and the car improvement was very noiceable. I cant tell when was the last time Williams made an upgrade that worked in the first try. So overall I'm saying that staying in Williams next year might not be torture chamber as most think it will be because of the new regs and team structural changes and thus George could be willing to stay another year scoring points on the odd podium. We will see.. I put it at 50/50 depends on what Toto feels is best.
look at other way. they can offer bottas swap wiith williams. his old home and he can enjoy all the benefits you pointed. away from the pressure of competing with lewis, he might even win in williams with his rich experience, instead of podiums you mentioned in the new regulations that george may get. it would be a good opportunity to measure george against lewis. lewis will relish the challenge of fighting young gun. he can do what vettel couldn't do against a young gun. win win for all.

a honest question. why is that some of the hardcore lewis fans are against having george in mercedes? are you afraid that george would be too big a proposition for lewis to handle?
Never seen a single Lewis fan say this so with that in mind I think you're scared Lewis would make him look pretty ordinary then retire into the sunset as the GOAT, last time George drove his car he finished a shocking 9th after Lewis won a streak of 5 races in a row :lol:

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Hamilton probably has, If Mercedes delivers, about 3-4 top competitive seasons in him. With a Bottas next to him this would be potentially 3-4 world championships. With a force like Russell it will probably be 3-4 competitive years but only a real chance of 2 more championships. But, retire with 10 titles isn’t that bad.

MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:04 pm
MKlaus wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:14 pm

a honest question. why is that some of the hardcore lewis fans are against having george in mercedes? are you afraid that george would be too big a proposition for lewis to handle?
Lewis fans are not against George in Mercedes.

I for one am not against it but I don't think George joining in 2022 will do well for team harmony overall. I view him as another Jenson Button politcally. George loves politics. He is well spoken, he thinks he knows just the right things that people want to hear and he plays the victim game quite alot. His is now the youngest GPDA president in history too! Nothing shows political intent more than that.
Toto has expressed his disdain for these sorts of political characters in the team so George certainly would have to show he can work with Lewis (less talking and more delivering!) before Toto pulls the trigger.

The other thing is that the media will create a story of a "true British son" Vs "the Immigrant seed" as a weapon against Lewis, who has Grenadian grandparents (and is obviously not white English). This dynamic the media will push again, to create a story of George "showing Lewis up" as they did when Jenson was his teammate. It sounds like a stretch but trust me... This story will sell like hot cakes.

I don't even care about who is faster. Lewis is 36, his speed has to decline one day and George will be faster at some point. What I care about is team harmony.


PS. If you read my post history... You will see that I rate George up there with Charles and Max for raw speed.
you should try writing fiction. :D

MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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matt_b wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:12 pm
MKlaus wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:14 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:39 am
It will be a new era and the Willams surely can't be as bad as it is now can it? They stared the Hybrid era on a very good foot,
succumbing to large scale change in design philosophy of the car in 2017 (probably the worst decision ever for them) and they have been paying the price ever since. Now they do seem to have a better direction just based on the nature of the little ulgrades I saw them do from the first to the second race. The were more direct in addressing weak areas in the floor and diffuser by precise shifts in some of the elelments on the floor and the car improvement was very noiceable. I cant tell when was the last time Williams made an upgrade that worked in the first try. So overall I'm saying that staying in Williams next year might not be torture chamber as most think it will be because of the new regs and team structural changes and thus George could be willing to stay another year scoring points on the odd podium. We will see.. I put it at 50/50 depends on what Toto feels is best.
look at other way. they can offer bottas swap wiith williams. his old home and he can enjoy all the benefits you pointed. away from the pressure of competing with lewis, he might even win in williams with his rich experience, instead of podiums you mentioned in the new regulations that george may get. it would be a good opportunity to measure george against lewis. lewis will relish the challenge of fighting young gun. he can do what vettel couldn't do against a young gun. win win for all.

a honest question. why is that some of the hardcore lewis fans are against having george in mercedes? are you afraid that george would be too big a proposition for lewis to handle?
Never seen a single Lewis fan say this so with that in mind I think you're scared Lewis would make him look pretty ordinary then retire into the sunset as the GOAT, last time George drove his car he finished a shocking 9th after Lewis won a streak of 5 races in a row :lol:
you answered my question in exact way i anticipated. thanks for confirming.

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raymondu999
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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matt_b wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:12 pm
last time George drove his car he finished a shocking 9th after Lewis won a streak of 5 races in a row :lol:
I do not intend to participate in the rest of this discussion but that statement — while factually and undeniably true (didnt bother to check the Hamilton streak I’m taking his word for it) — has a shocking lack of context
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

dans79
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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As far as I'm concerned George hasn't shown he deserves a Merc seat yet. He has far to many screw ups when it really matters. Out Qualifying people who are lucky to even be in F1 isn't exactly what top teams care about!
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MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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looking at some of the lacklustre responses, tailored to self satiate, it strengthens my belief that some hamilton fans are afraid of having george in the other mercedes car. lewis winning championships where his only competitor was a lapdog team mate is considered great, but another young driver beating similar, less than average team mate, far more consistently isn't great and who also proved he can do exactly the same job in that mercedes (a car not built for him, with just a couple of hours of practice) when the opportunity came by beating the same lapdog team mate of lewis.

toraabe
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:16 am
As far as I'm concerned George hasn't shown he deserves a Merc seat yet. He has far to many screw ups when it really matters. Out Qualifying people who are lucky to even be in F1 isn't exactly what top teams care about!
Bottas and Russel should swap seat ;). Annyway with new regs next year williams could be, or will be up there

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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MKlaus wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:26 am
looking at some of the lacklustre responses, tailored to self satiate, it strengthens my belief that some hamilton fans are afraid of having george in the other mercedes car.
Or maybe many people on here don't want to fall down your rabbit hole and get in to a thread-closing argument with you. :wink:

If George gets in to the car next to Lewis and beats him then "well done". It doesn't diminish Lewis's record any more than Rosberg beating Michael three seasons on the bounce diminishes Michael's record.

Drivers get older, young drivers come through, there is a swap over and the old guys retire. That's just a reflection of life in general.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:30 am
MKlaus wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:26 am
looking at some of the lacklustre responses, tailored to self satiate, it strengthens my belief that some hamilton fans are afraid of having george in the other mercedes car.
Or maybe many people on here don't want to fall down your rabbit hole and get in to a thread-closing argument with you. :wink:

If George gets in to the car next to Lewis and beats him then "well done". It doesn't diminish Lewis's record any more than Rosberg beating Michael three seasons on the bounce diminishes Michael's record.

Drivers get older, young drivers come through, there is a swap over and the old guys retire. That's just a reflection of life in general.
at least you said something wiser after the useless first line. instead of using silly reasoning to pull down a young driver, which others are doing. appreciate that. it's so much more easier if people accept that.
every young driver coming up, makes mistakes and have their own character traits that evolve over a period of time. quoting some of those errors and cherry picking some of those character traits to say, he doesn't deserve a seat is really silly and when it is done by hardcore lewis fans, it creates a negative perception of their thought process. like it or not.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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MKlaus wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:41 am

every young driver coming up, makes mistakes and have their own character traits that evolve over a period of time. quoting some of those errors and cherry picking some of those character traits to say, he doesn't deserve a seat is really silly and when it is done by hardcore lewis fans, it creates a negative perception of their thought process. like it or not.
Lewis himself made mistakes when he was developing, said some silly things at times, etc. Some people use those as an excuse to dislike him - "his personality" or whatever. That's their prerogative, of course. The key thing to note is that he developed as a driver. He's a much better all round driver today than he was back at McLaren. Lots of quick drivers don't develop and they have a brief moment of glory and then fall back in to the arms of the next new quick guy.

I think he's the stand out driver of his generation because he delivers at a very high level on a consistent basis. He may no longer be the quickest guy on the grid - although he still manages to find pole laps that come from nowhere, etc. - but he's certainly up there as one of the best drivers over the weekend. Able to put together wins where perhaps he shouldn't have done. In that regard, he's like Alonso, although unlike Alonso, Hamilton has figured out how to play the system and get/keep a top car.

Would Alonso have taken multiple titles at Mercedes? Yes, of course. Does that mean that Hamilton's legacy is worth less? No. Would a Hamilton or an Alonso have won multiple titles for Ferrari in the early 2000s, given the exact same circumstances? Yes, they would. Does that diminish Michael's legacy? No.

I happen to think that George in the other Mercedes would actually highlight how good Hamilton is as an all round racing driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see George out qualify Lewis on a regular basis, maybe even over the season as a whole, but I think Lewis would beat George over the whole season and finish ahead of him in the drivers' table. I think it would be fun to find out.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:09 pm
I happen to think that George in the other Mercedes would actually highlight how good Hamilton is as an all round racing driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see George out qualify Lewis on a regular basis, maybe even over the season as a whole, but I think Lewis would beat George over the whole season and finish ahead of him in the drivers' table. I think it would be fun to find out.
i already mentioned in one of my previous posts about the prospect of lewis beating all the young and talented drivers there next year, especially with george being his team mate. if he could do that, even for just one season, it would raise his stature amongst the greats. max in redbull, lando hopefully much improved mclaren and leclerc in ferrari. even if he loses, no shame, but i am sure he would go down with a hell of fight. making a case to deny george the opportunity to measure up against the best, is a crime. it would make a great contest like 2012 which i am sure we all enjoyed.

dans79
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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MKlaus wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:31 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:09 pm
I happen to think that George in the other Mercedes would actually highlight how good Hamilton is as an all round racing driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see George out qualify Lewis on a regular basis, maybe even over the season as a whole, but I think Lewis would beat George over the whole season and finish ahead of him in the drivers' table. I think it would be fun to find out.
i already mentioned in one of my previous posts about the prospect of lewis beating all the young and talented drivers there next year, especially with george being his team mate. if he could do that, even for just one season, it would raise his stature amongst the greats. max in redbull, lando hopefully much improved mclaren and leclerc in ferrari. even if he loses, no shame, but i am sure he would go down with a hell of fight. making a case to deny george the opportunity to measure up against the best, is a crime. it would make a great contest like 2012 which i am sure we all enjoyed.
By all means explain to us how George has earned the seat!
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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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@MKlaus

So beating Vettel, Rosberg, Kimi, Massa, Button, Alonso etc isn't enough.

Still not seen any Hamilton fans who don't want Russell in the other car. I would love both Russell and Hamilton paired together, and I really don't mind who wins that battle. Lewis has had stronger team mates than anyone else on the grid. So why be afraid of the next one ?
GoLandoGo
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King George has arrived.

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MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:14 pm
MKlaus wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:31 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:09 pm
I happen to think that George in the other Mercedes would actually highlight how good Hamilton is as an all round racing driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see George out qualify Lewis on a regular basis, maybe even over the season as a whole, but I think Lewis would beat George over the whole season and finish ahead of him in the drivers' table. I think it would be fun to find out.
i already mentioned in one of my previous posts about the prospect of lewis beating all the young and talented drivers there next year, especially with george being his team mate. if he could do that, even for just one season, it would raise his stature amongst the greats. max in redbull, lando hopefully much improved mclaren and leclerc in ferrari. even if he loses, no shame, but i am sure he would go down with a hell of fight. making a case to deny george the opportunity to measure up against the best, is a crime. it would make a great contest like 2012 which i am sure we all enjoyed.
By all means explain to us how George has earned the seat!
can you first let us how did lewis earn his seat in 2007? i can then definitely explain why i think george has earned it more.