Silly season 2021-2022-2023

[El Scorchio]

I think the question about the Mercedes seat is the most interesting one and pretty much guaranteed to dictate what will happen up and down the grid.

Will Hamilton be at Mercedes or in F1 in 2022?
Will one of the Mercedes seats go to either Bottas or Russel?
Will Verstappen be able to get out of his contract with RedBull to join Mercedes in 2022? Or is he firmly locked in, also due to how well RedBull are positioned this year?
If Verstappen moves, who will he be replaced with?
If George moves, who will he be replaced with?
Would Mercedes consider someone outside their junior program that is not Verstappen? E.g. Norris?
Is Alonso really that rusty and will he lose out to Ocon this year? (some part of me thinks that Alonso is just rusty)

Good questions! My take is

Yes
Yes- Russell (unless he does something to lose it this season- it seems clear if he should be available that Norris is becoming a viable option)
No- well he might be able to get out of it but there won't be a Mercedes seat for him. (Even if Hamilton leaves it'll be Russell and Bottas) And I think he'll be encouraged to stay after 2021 anyway.
If Verstappen moved, I can see them trying to get Ricciardo back, or move one of the AT boys up. Either way the RB car will be less idiosyncratically designed if Verstappen isn't there so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
If Russell moved, sadly it's probably another pay driver. Although I hope they'd be brave and say they are moving up the ladder and will need an experienced hand, so I'd hope for a 'wily veteran'
Yes they would. If not Russell then I really think Norris could be a possibility.
Alonso- have to face the fact he may sadly be 'past it' now. Let's see after 6 races. He may well lose out to Ocon. But perhaps for all the publicity he brings Alpine, (and money in cap sales alone?!) it's not so bad

[Jolle]

looking at the current grid, I don't expect to many changes to next year. The top teams apart from Bottas his seat are pretty steady and just singed multiple year deals and looks quite stable. The only real change I expect is Alfa, will Kimi stick on another year and how does Ferrari think about GIO? Are there currently drivers waiting in the wing for those seats? And, well.. where will Bottas go and who will pick up the seat next to Latifi..

[PlatinumZealot]

every young driver coming up, makes mistakes and have their own character traits that evolve over a period of time. quoting some of those errors and cherry picking some of those character traits to say, he doesn't deserve a seat is really silly and when it is done by hardcore lewis fans, it creates a negative perception of their thought process. like it or not.

Lewis himself made mistakes when he was developing, said some silly things at times, etc. Some people use those as an excuse to dislike him - "his personality" or whatever. That's their prerogative, of course. The key thing to note is that he developed as a driver. He's a much better all round driver today than he was back at McLaren. Lots of quick drivers don't develop and they have a brief moment of glory and then fall back in to the arms of the next new quick guy.

I think he's the stand out driver of his generation because he delivers at a very high level on a consistent basis. He may no longer be the quickest guy on the grid - although he still manages to find pole laps that come from nowhere, etc. - but he's certainly up there as one of the best drivers over the weekend. Able to put together wins where perhaps he shouldn't have done. In that regard, he's like Alonso, although unlike Alonso, Hamilton has figured out how to play the system and get/keep a top car.

Would Alonso have taken multiple titles at Mercedes? Yes, of course. Does that mean that Hamilton's legacy is worth less? No. Would a Hamilton or an Alonso have won multiple titles for Ferrari in the early 2000s, given the exact same circumstances? Yes, they would. Does that diminish Michael's legacy? No.

I happen to think that George in the other Mercedes would actually highlight how good Hamilton is as an all round racing driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see George out qualify Lewis on a regular basis, maybe even over the season as a whole, but I think Lewis would beat George over the whole season and finish ahead of him in the drivers' table. I think it would be fun to find out.

There is no evidence to suggest Lewis is no longer the quickest driver. Absolutely zero evidence. Quite the contrary actually.

We cant even say Max is the fastest. Carlos was close to Max. So was Daniel. Max even seems to be matched by Perez after a couple races. Leclerc so far seems to be the "speedy" one of the young'uns. But again no evidence so far pointing to Leclerc being any faster than Lewis.

Best we just accept Lewis being the fastest until the time his teammate starts beating him regularly.

[Just_a_fan]

every young driver coming up, makes mistakes and have their own character traits that evolve over a period of time. quoting some of those errors and cherry picking some of those character traits to say, he doesn't deserve a seat is really silly and when it is done by hardcore lewis fans, it creates a negative perception of their thought process. like it or not.

Lewis himself made mistakes when he was developing, said some silly things at times, etc. Some people use those as an excuse to dislike him - "his personality" or whatever. That's their prerogative, of course. The key thing to note is that he developed as a driver. He's a much better all round driver today than he was back at McLaren. Lots of quick drivers don't develop and they have a brief moment of glory and then fall back in to the arms of the next new quick guy.

I think he's the stand out driver of his generation because he delivers at a very high level on a consistent basis. He may no longer be the quickest guy on the grid - although he still manages to find pole laps that come from nowhere, etc. - but he's certainly up there as one of the best drivers over the weekend. Able to put together wins where perhaps he shouldn't have done. In that regard, he's like Alonso, although unlike Alonso, Hamilton has figured out how to play the system and get/keep a top car.

Would Alonso have taken multiple titles at Mercedes? Yes, of course. Does that mean that Hamilton's legacy is worth less? No. Would a Hamilton or an Alonso have won multiple titles for Ferrari in the early 2000s, given the exact same circumstances? Yes, they would. Does that diminish Michael's legacy? No.

I happen to think that George in the other Mercedes would actually highlight how good Hamilton is as an all round racing driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see George out qualify Lewis on a regular basis, maybe even over the season as a whole, but I think Lewis would beat George over the whole season and finish ahead of him in the drivers' table. I think it would be fun to find out.

There is no evidence to suggest Lewis is no longer the quickest driver. Absolutely zero evidence. Quite the contrary actually.

We cant even say Max is the fastest. Carlos was close to Max. So was Daniel. Max even seems to be matched by Perez after a couple races. Leclerc so far seems to be the "speedy" one of the young'uns. But again no evidence so far pointing to Leclerc being any faster than Lewis.

Best we just accept Lewis being the fastest until the time his teammate starts beating him regularly.

Until such time as all of the drivers set times in identical cars, there is no evidence that any one of them is the fastest of all of them. All you can say is that ten drivers are, on any given day, faster than ten other drivers (their team mates in what ought to be the same machinery). And that can, and does, change from day to day.

[SuperCNJ]

Although as a fan of motorsport we all want to know who is fastest, but in reality it's probably not possible to say as there's just too many factors and too many assumptions. We all talk about having equal machinery but that is just trying to get a fairer comparison not necessarily a perfectly fair comparison as different drivers have different preferences and driving styles. A car that suits one driver may not necessarily suit another. Take Verstappen and Gasly, Gasly is a seriously fast driver and certainly not the 0.4-0.6s difference to Verstappen that the stats suggest. But Verstappen is simply better able to adapt his driving style to the particular behaviours of the RB like Vettel was against Webber. Put them both in another car, and it may not be so much of a difference or it could even be the other way around.

All we can do is speculate but can't really draw any conclusions as to who is fastest and by how much, although admittedly it is pretty interesting.

[Tizz]

There is no evidence to suggest Lewis is no longer the quickest driver. Absolutely zero evidence. Quite the contrary actually.

We cant even say Max is the fastest. Carlos was close to Max. So was Daniel. Max even seems to be matched by Perez after a couple races. Leclerc so far seems to be the "speedy" one of the young'uns. But again no evidence so far pointing to Leclerc being any faster than Lewis.

Best we just accept Lewis being the fastest until the time his teammate starts beating him regularly.

It is quite offensive to think that anyone would accept this reasoning.

[PlatinumZealot]

Although as a fan of motorsport we all want to know who is fastest, but in reality it's probably not possible to say as there's just too many factors and too many assumptions. We all talk about having equal machinery but that is just trying to get a fairer comparison not necessarily a perfectly fair comparison as different drivers have different preferences and driving styles. A car that suits one driver may not necessarily suit another. Take Verstappen and Gasly, Gasly is a seriously fast driver and certainly not the 0.4-0.6s difference to Verstappen that the stats suggest. But Verstappen is simply better able to adapt his driving style to the particular behaviours of the RB like Vettel was against Webber. Put them both in another car, and it may not be so much of a difference or it could even be the other way around.

All we can do is speculate but can't really draw any conclusions as to who is fastest and by how much, although admittedly it is pretty interesting.

The driver must suit the car not the other way around is my belief. Every driver will want the fastest car/setup, however the fastest car is not necessarily the easiest car to drive. (see Max in RedBull). So when I think philosophically about this... The fastest drivers can drive any car.

[PlatinumZealot]

There is no evidence to suggest Lewis is no longer the quickest driver. Absolutely zero evidence. Quite the contrary actually.

We cant even say Max is the fastest. Carlos was close to Max. So was Daniel. Max even seems to be matched by Perez after a couple races. Leclerc so far seems to be the "speedy" one of the young'uns. But again no evidence so far pointing to Leclerc being any faster than Lewis.

Best we just accept Lewis being the fastest until the time his teammate starts beating him regularly.

It is quite offensive to think that anyone would accept this reasoning.

Why? And what is the other reasoning they should accept?

[dans79]

It is quite offensive to think that anyone would accept this reasoning.

He has the most poles, short of being in identical machinery that's the only real way to measure who is the best!

[Zynerji]

Even in identical machinery. Strategy, temperature, pit rotation, qualifying position, and other drivers all get in the way of a perfect measurement.

The granularity is what makes it impossible to perfectly determine. That's why we track "records" (wins/wdc/poles).

[Tizz]

It is quite offensive to think that anyone would accept this reasoning.

He has the most poles, short of being in identical machinery that's the only real way to measure who is the best!

Exactly... Well, it proves he's quicker than Bottas, but then again, who isn't ?

[MKlaus]

mods need to remind some people again this is silly season thread, not "my driver's d**k is longest" thread.

[Tizz]

mods need to remind some people again this is silly season thread, not "my driver's d**k is longest" thread.

Please remind me, who is my driver again ?

[tangodjango]

There is no evidence to suggest Lewis is no longer the quickest driver. Absolutely zero evidence. Quite the contrary actually.

We cant even say Max is the fastest. Carlos was close to Max. So was Daniel. Max even seems to be matched by Perez after a couple races. Leclerc so far seems to be the "speedy" one of the young'uns. But again no evidence so far pointing to Leclerc being any faster than Lewis.

Best we just accept Lewis being the fastest until the time his teammate starts beating him regularly.

It is quite offensive to think that anyone would accept this reasoning.

Why? And what is the other reasoning they should accept?

Because the narrative was Hamilton has lucked into these cars and apparently almost anyone could have won those championships and Verstappen would walk all over him in equal cars. So now that the great saviour Verstappen with a faster car and a tyre advantage and twice the talent of Senna+Schumacher apparently could barely get a sniff in Bahrain and bottled it under pressure in Imola qualifying and then spun at low speed and nearly crashed (different from Lewis who was going for the overtake on a wet patch when he slid off), excuses have to be sought and straws have to be clutched at. Infact Lewis is just getting warmed up and it's a great pity he was over eager to overtake Russell, otherwise he would have walked all over Verstappen with a damaged car.

[JordanMugen]

Because the narrative was Hamilton has lucked into these cars

Regarding silly season movements, Hamilton could have stayed at McLaren-Mercedes then McLaren-Honda then McLaren-Renault then McLaren-Mercedes. It seems unlikely Hamilton would have won six hybrid WDCs at McLaren.

So Whitmarsh favouring Button all worked out for Hamilton in the end!

I.e., Rosberg 7xWDC, assuming Rosberg maintained a high level throughout and did not suffer burn out by avoiding the difficult Hamilton battle.

Verstappen would walk all over him in equal cars.

Nonsense, nobody says that. They seem comparable, until they race in the same team it hard to say who has the edge. Perhaps the WDCs would be split when they are teammates, as Senna and Prost did?

We really need to see more double-A driver pairings on the grid... Be it Russell going to Mercedes in 2022, or Russell going to Red Bull in 2022 (if Mercedes refuses to present a contract).