Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Tizz
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:03 pm
We already have Max in a superior car now...
It's interesting that everybody actually working in F1 have a different opinion. I really don't see the point in you engaging in a discussion if you made your mind up already and not willing to even consider other arguments and observations then your own.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Tizz wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:26 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:03 pm
We already have Max in a superior car now...
It's interesting that everybody actually working in F1 have a different opinion. I really don't see the point in you engaging in a discussion if you made your mind up already and not willing to even consider other arguments and observations then your own.
I'm not sure where you get your "everybody actually working in F1" bit from ? Care to elaborate ?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Tizz wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:26 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:03 pm
We already have Max in a superior car now...
It's interesting that everybody actually working in F1 have a different opinion. I really don't see the point in you engaging in a discussion if you made your mind up already and not willing to even consider other arguments and observations then your own.
The RedBull is superior now, that is for sure. Do I want it to stay that way? No of course not. I have made it clear many times that I want Mercedes to return to clear domination by about race 5 or so... It might not happen so quickly, but i definitely want it to happen before mid-season.

To return on topic, I don't think there will be much to see racing-wise with Lewis and Max at Mercedes. Lewis against another top driver in the same or similar cars has been done and dusted. Only thing remaining will be the political dynamics and drama and for driving purists that might distract from any appreciating the driving nuances between the two drivers.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

zeph
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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It is doubtful the RBR is “superior” to the Merc, it’s track and setup dependent, AFAICT.

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Racer X
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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zeph wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:55 pm
It is doubtful the RBR is “superior” to the Merc, it’s track and setup dependent, AFAICT.
I really dont think RedBull is stronger they are closer yes but stronger no.

That said with Perez staying in 4th place and his skills hes looking pretty good to stay in RedBull for next season. Tsunoda can then properly develop but going into 2023 i think we will see Yuki at RedBull.
RedBull Racing MAX//PEREZ

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Racer X wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:01 pm
zeph wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:55 pm
It is doubtful the RBR is “superior” to the Merc, it’s track and setup dependent, AFAICT.
I really dont think RedBull is stronger they are closer yes but stronger no.

That said with Perez staying in 4th place and his skills hes looking pretty good to stay in RedBull for next season. Tsunoda can then properly develop but going into 2023 i think we will see Yuki at RedBull.
I think so to, Perez looks really like a deal to bring some peace into the development program. The promotion after one year of AT/STR went wrong too many times. Probably less to do with the car, more the pace and pressure of the big team.

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Racer X
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:00 pm
Racer X wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:01 pm
zeph wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:55 pm
It is doubtful the RBR is “superior” to the Merc, it’s track and setup dependent, AFAICT.
I really dont think RedBull is stronger they are closer yes but stronger no.

That said with Perez staying in 4th place and his skills hes looking pretty good to stay in RedBull for next season. Tsunoda can then properly develop but going into 2023 i think we will see Yuki at RedBull.
I think so to, Perez looks really like a deal to bring some peace into the development program. The promotion after one year of AT/STR went wrong too many times. Probably less to do with the car, more the pace and pressure of the big team.
Yeah the experience that is making Perez successful is what they need to give to the Academy drivers like how Ricc properly developed. you cant always rush things Max/Vettel special cases. But you wont get that every time.
RedBull Racing MAX//PEREZ

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Racer X wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:50 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:00 pm
Racer X wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:01 pm


I really dont think RedBull is stronger they are closer yes but stronger no.

That said with Perez staying in 4th place and his skills hes looking pretty good to stay in RedBull for next season. Tsunoda can then properly develop but going into 2023 i think we will see Yuki at RedBull.
I think so to, Perez looks really like a deal to bring some peace into the development program. The promotion after one year of AT/STR went wrong too many times. Probably less to do with the car, more the pace and pressure of the big team.
Yeah the experience that is making Perez successful is what they need to give to the Academy drivers like how Ricc properly developed. you cant always rush things Max/Vettel special cases. But you wont get that every time.
Even Vettel and Verstappen had two full pre-seasons with STR before they were introduced into RedBull. Kvyat, Gasly and Albon only one.

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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Perez will get them a mature, experienced view and one with the talent of being able to last tires like crazy. That'll help them develop the car even better.
Sergio isn't doing too bad, he's a bit behind the championship, but then he needs to come up to speed to in the RB car and he looks like he's getting there.
I don't think Sergio is as intense and competitive as Daniel was, but i'd argue he's like the Webber and Coulthard they had before.

That said, if Mercedes doesn't sign George for 2022, we could see Marko make a bold move and snatch George from them.
Whether that is a smart move for Russell to go with is another thing to concider, but i would argue that if by now Mercedes has not made it clear he's getting a race seat for 2022 @ AMG,
then he really needs to concider his options. Hamilton seems to be going nowhere but stay where he is, and that really puts a big question mark on Russell's potential to go to the main team.

Any other Mercedes-powered team like Mclaren or Aston, whether he even gets a seat there, at the best gets him a win, but is a sure waste of his talent.
After all, that win is definately possible at RedBull - or perhaps Ferrari soon too - aswell.

And RedBull has been poaching a lot of key Mercedes employees in their ever so invested plan to get back to the top with a top-engine, so RBR is likely to improve it's chances against AMG.

Marko would benefit from the talent that is George Russell, also simply by having that talent aboard, and no matter how much i like Sergio, Russell would beat him like there's no tomorrow.
Meanwhile, Marko also must keep in mind that it is not completely unfathomable that Max leaves. And no matter how 'good' Tsunoda is, i honestly doubt he's as 'super'talented as Max.
Russell i would concider somebody that would actually be comparable. So getting him in the seat next to Max, would be a tactical win.

I would definately concider Verstappen-Russell such a strong pair that it seriously jeapordizes Hamilton-Bottas as a pair in the WCC race.
Ferrari imho is the place to go to achieve no results in the end, so i wouldn't go that route if i was George.

Either way, Mercedes MUST sign Russell alongside Hamilton for 2022 to use his potential.

The only way I could see Mercedes 'keeping' Russell and still play it safe, is to ditch Bottas, and get either Daniel, Norris or Vettel aboard.
That way they could bring Russell to Mclaren, where he atleast has a decent shot at F1 in his career.
The other would be Aston, but i think they need to invest more. It would be, imho, as good a 'shot' at his F1 career, as Alonso right now @ Alpine.

Let's see what the Spanish GP delivers though.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:54 pm
Racer X wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:50 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:00 pm


I think so to, Perez looks really like a deal to bring some peace into the development program. The promotion after one year of AT/STR went wrong too many times. Probably less to do with the car, more the pace and pressure of the big team.
Yeah the experience that is making Perez successful is what they need to give to the Academy drivers like how Ricc properly developed. you cant always rush things Max/Vettel special cases. But you wont get that every time.
Even Vettel and Verstappen had two full pre-seasons with STR before they were introduced into RedBull. Kvyat, Gasly and Albon only one.
Vettel only joined STR in 07 around the summer break so I wouldn't say he had 2 full pre-seasons.

Edit. Seb had 25 races in STR, Max had 23. So not much over a season really.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Surprised how time flies. Max will have the experience of 123 races by Sunday afternoon! He's only 23!!
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

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Pyrone89
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:03 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:31 pm
Every F1 fan's dream:

Hamilton and Verstappen at Mercedes. Finally completely same cars, FIGHT!
Don't really need to see this, to be honest. We already have Max in a superior car now, and we have seen them battle on track. Nothing else to see. I am bored, in fact. I expected a nastier fight.
Because the W12, after ironing out it's initial balance issue, is now again the best car (like the Merc has had the past 7 years over the length of the season), there is only one way to have a fair 1 vs 1 and that is to give them both the exact same car. Wether that is a Merc, RBR or Williams.

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Tizz
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:36 am
Tizz wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:26 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:03 pm
We already have Max in a superior car now...
It's interesting that everybody actually working in F1 have a different opinion. I really don't see the point in you engaging in a discussion if you made your mind up already and not willing to even consider other arguments and observations then your own.
I'm not sure where you get your "everybody actually working in F1" bit from ? Care to elaborate ?
I think this opposition just got shortcircuited yesterday.

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NathanOlder
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Location: Kent

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Tizz wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 6:06 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:36 am
Tizz wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:26 am

It's interesting that everybody actually working in F1 have a different opinion. I really don't see the point in you engaging in a discussion if you made your mind up already and not willing to even consider other arguments and observations then your own.
I'm not sure where you get your "everybody actually working in F1" bit from ? Care to elaborate ?
I think this opposition just got shortcircuited yesterday.
So you think Mercedes had the best car in every race this season ?
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:28 am
Tizz wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 6:06 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:36 am


I'm not sure where you get your "everybody actually working in F1" bit from ? Care to elaborate ?
I think this opposition just got shortcircuited yesterday.
So you think Mercedes had the best car in every race this season ?
there is no reason to believe otherwise. it's the same exact car that they have been racing for all these races, without any upgrades (albeit a small one on the diffuser). if the car has won 3 out of 4 races and got 3 poles, there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "best car" in every race this season. winter testing might have given a different picture, as it has been a few times in the last 8 years, but the car is definitely the "best car" so far based on what it has achieved.