Silly season 2021-2022-2023

[Manoah2u]

My guess is Bottas to Williams on a two years deal, partly still under Mercedes wing to be the backup when the junior program comes out dry when Hamilton retires.

if you think Bottas will go back to backmarker Williams, you honestly have no idea what you're writing about.

Bottas' contract not getting renewed, which is probably a done deal by now, means he'll simply exit F1.
Not only has he nowhere to go, nobody really is waiting for him either.

remember, we're talking about this tool:


the ONLY chance bottas had to stay with mercedes was if hamilton DIDN'T.

bye bottas, you won't be missed.

[Big Tea]

I wonder if he is fancying Ant's job? Doubt it, but it could be a time passing year

[Zynerji]

He's got money and his health. He should just go do punditry for Finnish TV, and cash big, safe, paychecks.

[ringo]

Bottas can easily take Kimi's seat or Perez

[nacho]

Before this season I thought Red Bull should sign Russell, but I think he must be going to Mercedes next year. RB should definitely sign Bottas.

[LHamilton]

Regardless if Russell gets signed or not, I can't see an announcement happening at Silverstone. I feel like it would be a slight middle finger towards Bottas. Since you're announcing it at Russells home grand prix, that would be the biggest talking point. And Russell would be "on clouds" where as Bottas would have to answer questions about it as well as surround himself in that atmosphere which would be heavily Russell favoured. And unless Bottas has done something to upset Mercedes, I can't see an announcement happening. I feel even it would be slightly unprofessinal to do so. The right move is probably to do so under the summer break, where a lot of contract talks tend to kick into gear and also acts as a 'neutral zone', when it comes to announce contracts since you are verging towards having to make decisions about next year.

[Just_a_fan]

Before this season I thought Red Bull should sign Russell, but I think he must be going to Mercedes next year. RB should definitely sign Bottas.

Why would RB drop Perez and sign Bottas? Perez is doing the job they need him to do - taking enough points for the team and not fighting Max for the drivers' title.

[Ryar]

2021 could potentially be Mercedes' McLaren 2013 moment. It makes sense for Russell to sign with Red Bull if there is an offer as the momentum is with Red Bull. They have always been a good chassis developers and with Honda PU being currently better than Mercedes and Mercedes having issues in changing their car philosophy and a budget restricted development environment where they can't throw billions at it, all points to Red Bull coming out on top in 2022. It would also be a good insurance for Red Bull against Max if he gets interested elsewhere in the next couple of years. Having 2 strong drivers would at a minimum give advantage in constructors fight for Red Bull. With frozen PU and budget restrictions, there can be multiple teams at play. Ferrari, McLaren and potentially Aston Martin.

Bottas generaly fails to do the No. 2 job, when the car is on par with another team. 2017, 18 and 21 are evidences of that. If there are multiple teams in play next year, he would probably sit outside of top 10 consistently. So he would be no good for Red Bull, especially when Perez is already doing a similar job. If Red Bull wants to ditch Perez, they should really need a very good upgrade not a replacement of lower quality. It would be a win-win for Red Bull and Russell.

[Jolle]

2021 could potentially be Mercedes' McLaren 2013 moment. It makes sense for Russell to sign with Red Bull if there is an offer as the momentum is with Red Bull. They have always been a good chassis developers and with Honda PU being currently better than Mercedes and Mercedes having issues in changing their car philosophy and a budget restricted development environment where they can't throw billions at it, all points to Red Bull coming out on top in 2022. It would also be a good insurance for Red Bull against Max if he gets interested elsewhere in the next couple of years. Having 2 strong drivers would at a minimum give advantage in constructors fight for Red Bull. With frozen PU and budget restrictions, there can be multiple teams at play. Ferrari, McLaren and potentially Aston Martin.

Bottas generaly fails to do the No. 2 job, when the car is on par with another team. 2017, 18 and 21 are evidences of that. If there are multiple teams in play next year, he would probably sit outside of top 10 consistently. So he would be no good for Red Bull, especially when Perez is already doing a similar job. If Red Bull wants to ditch Perez, they should really need a very good upgrade not a replacement of lower quality. It would be a win-win for Red Bull and Russell.

It could be…. But, contrarily to McLaren in 2013, Mercedes didn’t design a new car for this year but did the absolute minimum (they even use old W11 chassis)

Actually looking to the 2013 season, two teams invested greatly in that years car: RedBull and McLaren, both at the expense of 2014, while Mercedes stopped development early while still in a winning position to focus everything on the new rules. As a result, RedBull ran away with nine wins in a row and where nowhere in 2014… McLaren of course just dug a deeper hole.

If I was betting, my money would be on Mercedes for 2022.

[Ryar]

It could be…. But, contrarily to McLaren in 2013, Mercedes didn’t design a new car for this year but did the absolute minimum (they even use old W11 chassis)

Actually looking to the 2013 season, two teams invested greatly in that years car: RedBull and McLaren, both at the expense of 2014, while Mercedes stopped development early while still in a winning position to focus everything on the new rules. As a result, RedBull ran away with nine wins in a row and where nowhere in 2014… McLaren of course just dug a deeper hole.

If I was betting, my money would be on Mercedes for 2022.

First point about McLaren comparison, it wasn't exact comparison of all things transpired. It was more a reference about how, losing momentum (under estimation, over estimation, going the wrong way etc.,) can be a sign of things to come.

Red Bull car for 2014, was still top class and it was debated in those years. Their RB9 pursuit didn't really affect RB10. It was the Renault PU that let them down with a reported deficit of 80 hp (probably even higher considering Mercedes, self admittedly, was sandbagging the power output). If only Renault would have built an equal engine to Mercedes for 2014, we wouldn't be having the conversation of how a team can compromise a new car, while working on current one.

[bosyber]

It could be…. But, contrarily to McLaren in 2013, Mercedes didn’t design a new car for this year but did the absolute minimum (they even use old W11 chassis)

Actually looking to the 2013 season, two teams invested greatly in that years car: RedBull and McLaren, both at the expense of 2014, while Mercedes stopped development early while still in a winning position to focus everything on the new rules. As a result, RedBull ran away with nine wins in a row and where nowhere in 2014… McLaren of course just dug a deeper hole.

If I was betting, my money would be on Mercedes for 2022.

First point about McLaren comparison, it wasn't exact comparison of all things transpired. It was more a reference about how, losing momentum (under estimation, over estimation, going the wrong way etc.,) can be a sign of things to come.

Red Bull car for 2014, was still top class and it was debated in those years. Their RB9 pursuit didn't really affect RB10. It was the Renault PU that let them down with a reported deficit of 80 hp (probably even higher considering Mercedes, self admittedly, was sandbagging the power output). If only Renault would have built an equal engine to Mercedes for 2014, we wouldn't be having the conversation of how a team can compromise a new car, while working on current one.

I see your point, but I don't see the conclusive evidence of that RB being great if it weren't for the engine. Yes, clearly it suffered from an underpowered and unreliable PU. But, part of that was their aero people - Newey - not wanting to compromise on cooling (and not working well with Renault to make sure they knew what was needed? Two to blame there, probably, but it likely would have been an issue with a Merc too, given their unreliability usually boiled down to cooling too!), ie. that car wasn't great when put together as a unit. It was good at several tracks, esp. where there were slow corners (so, mechanical grip done well - that's an area where they have maintained strength), but the PU (and alternator, but again, cooling) really became their go to thing to blame. Given how since then only the chassis freeze of this year, and rule changed that didn't work out on the Mercl have given them a competitive car in all circumstances, that's really not enough to show their car was all that great when the year started.

[Ryar]

It could be…. But, contrarily to McLaren in 2013, Mercedes didn’t design a new car for this year but did the absolute minimum (they even use old W11 chassis)

Actually looking to the 2013 season, two teams invested greatly in that years car: RedBull and McLaren, both at the expense of 2014, while Mercedes stopped development early while still in a winning position to focus everything on the new rules. As a result, RedBull ran away with nine wins in a row and where nowhere in 2014… McLaren of course just dug a deeper hole.

If I was betting, my money would be on Mercedes for 2022.

First point about McLaren comparison, it wasn't exact comparison of all things transpired. It was more a reference about how, losing momentum (under estimation, over estimation, going the wrong way etc.,) can be a sign of things to come.

Red Bull car for 2014, was still top class and it was debated in those years. Their RB9 pursuit didn't really affect RB10. It was the Renault PU that let them down with a reported deficit of 80 hp (probably even higher considering Mercedes, self admittedly, was sandbagging the power output). If only Renault would have built an equal engine to Mercedes for 2014, we wouldn't be having the conversation of how a team can compromise a new car, while working on current one.

I see your point, but I don't see the conclusive evidence of that RB being great if it weren't for the engine. Yes, clearly it suffered from an underpowered and unreliable PU. But, part of that was their aero people - Newey - not wanting to compromise on cooling (and not working well with Renault to make sure they knew what was needed? Two to blame there, probably, but it likely would have been an issue with a Merc too, given their unreliability usually boiled down to cooling too!), ie. that car wasn't great when put together as a unit. It was good at several tracks, esp. where there were slow corners (so, mechanical grip done well - that's an area where they have maintained strength), but the PU (and alternator, but again, cooling) really became their go to thing to blame. Given how since then only the chassis freeze of this year, and rule changed that didn't work out on the Mercl have given them a competitive car in all circumstances, that's really not enough to show their car was all that great when the year started.

Good points. Renault PU wasn't just slow, it was severly unreliable. On one hand you can argue that Red Bull's tight packaging was also part of the problem, but when you look at Renault's own car's miseries with unreliability, it tells you that, RB's tight packaging wasn't the main problem. Toro Rosso didn't have such tight packaging as RB, but they suffered too.

Renault didn't want any help and kept any Red Bull interference at bay. RB even brought Illien to help them, but he couldn't much either as Renault wasn't open to ideas. Renault kept faith in Cyrl for too long and he wasn't the right guy to lead them and largely, it was his adamant nature that soured the relationship between RB and Renault.

Lastly, there is no conrete way to prove RB10 was a good chassis and could have won championship with an on par PU. But there was enough data to suggest they had much better cornering performance and on low power tracks, they really excelled, which is a reasonable pointer for an argument.

[Zynerji]

Before this season I thought Red Bull should sign Russell, but I think he must be going to Mercedes next year. RB should definitely sign Bottas.

Why would RB drop Perez and sign Bottas? Perez is doing the job they need him to do - taking enough points for the team and not fighting Max for the drivers' title.

Perez obviously 2 places ahead of Bottas in the standings as well..

I'd only swap Perez if RBR could poach Norris...

[ringo]

I wasnt saying Bottas is night and day better than Perez. But he is faster for sure.
Sexondly Bottas does well if he has a clean weekend. Bottas has the track record of wins and podiums that brings WCC trophies.
He is not a bad pick for redbull.
The only way i seeing him replace Perez is if Russell goes to Mercedes. Redbull seem to be in an experimental phase and may just fancy picking Bottas.

[Manoah2u]

Before this season I thought Red Bull should sign Russell, but I think he must be going to Mercedes next year. RB should definitely sign Bottas.

I wasnt saying Bottas is night and day better than Perez. But he is faster for sure.
Sexondly Bottas does well if he has a clean weekend. Bottas has the track record of wins and podiums that brings WCC trophies.
He is not a bad pick for redbull.
The only way i seeing him replace Perez is if Russell goes to Mercedes. Redbull seem to be in an experimental phase and may just fancy picking Bottas.

Bottas @ RB
Dude raises his middle finger to the fans and his own team, quite frankly.
Wolff paid him a fortune to get into Mercedes, he gets the best car in the field, and he can't even get close to making an impact. Meanwhile, he's getting worse and worse.

Also, Perez is in front of him in the standings, is the perfect second driver next to Max, and fits the RBR team much better.

And Bottas is not faster, that is clear.

People DO realise it's not 2016 and Rosberg isn't in the team anymore, right?
Rosberg is fast, arguably faster than Perez.
Bottas isn't even worthy to stand in Rosberg's shadow at this point.