Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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the EDGE
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:35 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:30 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:21 pm


was a bit late for that, you have to appeal within 24 hours of the penalty.

If the story came from Marko, it was all about building the narrative. He knows that going to court isn't going to help and talking trough a dodgy Austrian tabloid leaves enough deniability, while knowing that every big news cycle is going to pick it up.
Not according to RB, this is what they posted on their website today
Given the severity of the incident and the lenient penalty, we are reviewing all data and have the right to request a review. We are therefore still looking at the evidence and considering all of our sporting options
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/redbullr ... gp-debrief
pfffff....
what could new evidence bring to light? from "predominantly" to "wholly" or "completely"?

this is pure politics and has noting to do with what actual is happening or will happen.
TBH the entire article is nothing new, just 1 big rant. I’ve never read anything like it from a team in my life

Jolle
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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the EDGE wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:38 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:35 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:30 pm


Not according to RB, this is what they posted on their website today



https://www.redbull.com/int-en/redbullr ... gp-debrief
pfffff....
what could new evidence bring to light? from "predominantly" to "wholly" or "completely"?

this is pure politics and has noting to do with what actual is happening or will happen.
TBH the entire article is nothing new, just 1 big rant. I’ve never read anything like it from a team in my life
bit off topic, today I read a quote from Horner that Leclerc was lucky that Hamilton didn't crash into him on their overtake.

Mercedes could well build a case for slander pretty soon...

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El Scorchio
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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You have to ask at what point do these sort of continual comments start to bring the sport into disrepute?

Hoffman900
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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You would think Horner would be more measured considering his very public, and sordid break up from his then pregnant ex-wife, to date his now current wife.

I think it’s all bluster to keep it in the news cycle for another week.

A lawsuit though would likely make them tally the damages in a way that might reveal some creative rounding to shape the narrative. ;) This would apply to all of them.

Jolle
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:08 pm
You would think Horner would be more measured considering his very public, and sordid break up from his then pregnant ex-wife, to date his now current wife.

I think it’s all bluster to keep it in the news cycle for another week.
I don't agree his private life has anything to do with this, as, in another forum Jos Verstappen's troubles. This is their work and we are not a tabloid forum.

This is a strategy to damage and destabilise Hamilton and Mercedes, off track, as a low blow.

Hoffman900
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:15 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:08 pm
You would think Horner would be more measured considering his very public, and sordid break up from his then pregnant ex-wife, to date his now current wife.

I think it’s all bluster to keep it in the news cycle for another week.
I don't agree his private life has anything to do with this, as, in another forum Jos Verstappen's troubles. This is their work and we are not a tabloid forum.

This is a strategy to damage and destabilise Hamilton and Mercedes, off track, as a low blow.
It matters in litigation as lawyers often try to discredit anyone and everyone involved.

It's dirty, but reality. Court isn't about right or wrong, it's about procedure and looking to discredit anyone / everyone involved to invoke doubt, at least here in the States.

The threat of litigation is usually the nuclear option. I also doubt Redbull, who really is more PR company than energy drink company, wants that image. Threatening lawsuits hurts the "young, hip, serious but not too serious" RedBull vibe (which is paraphrasing how Horner describes RedBull as a brand).
Last edited by Hoffman900 on Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Big Tea
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Looking at my suggested links page on youtube, I see both the mentioned article and Marco saying they will not be childish about it right next to Red Bull Hire Lawyer To Investigate Potentially “Fatal” Crash'

Probably undecided :roll:
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Jolle
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:19 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:15 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:08 pm
You would think Horner would be more measured considering his very public, and sordid break up from his then pregnant ex-wife, to date his now current wife.

I think it’s all bluster to keep it in the news cycle for another week.
I don't agree his private life has anything to do with this, as, in another forum Jos Verstappen's troubles. This is their work and we are not a tabloid forum.

This is a strategy to damage and destabilise Hamilton and Mercedes, off track, as a low blow.
It matters in litigation as lawyers often try to discredit anyone and everyone involved.

It's dirty, but reality. Court isn't about right or wrong, it's about procedure and looking to discredit anyone / everyone involved to invoke doubt, at least here in the States.

The threat of litigation is usually the nuclear option. I also doubt Redbull, who really is more PR company than energy drink company, wants that image.
Here in the Netherlands we don't have juries, it's all done by a judge so it's much more civil. No cheap/dirty tricks.

Hoffman900
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:29 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:19 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:15 pm


I don't agree his private life has anything to do with this, as, in another forum Jos Verstappen's troubles. This is their work and we are not a tabloid forum.

This is a strategy to damage and destabilise Hamilton and Mercedes, off track, as a low blow.
It matters in litigation as lawyers often try to discredit anyone and everyone involved.

It's dirty, but reality. Court isn't about right or wrong, it's about procedure and looking to discredit anyone / everyone involved to invoke doubt, at least here in the States.

The threat of litigation is usually the nuclear option. I also doubt Redbull, who really is more PR company than energy drink company, wants that image.
Here in the Netherlands we don't have juries, it's all done by a judge so it's much more civil. No cheap/dirty tricks.
Judges are political, and in the case of a multi-national sport, we then we end up in the situation of Senna at Suzuka (the first time): French sanctioning body protecting a French driver.

Jolle
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:35 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:29 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:19 pm


It matters in litigation as lawyers often try to discredit anyone and everyone involved.

It's dirty, but reality. Court isn't about right or wrong, it's about procedure and looking to discredit anyone / everyone involved to invoke doubt, at least here in the States.

The threat of litigation is usually the nuclear option. I also doubt Redbull, who really is more PR company than energy drink company, wants that image.
Here in the Netherlands we don't have juries, it's all done by a judge so it's much more civil. No cheap/dirty tricks.
Judges are political, and in the case of a multi-national sporting body, we then we end up in the situation of Senna at Suzuka. French sanctioning body protecting a French driver.
In the states and probably in the FIA as well, not in our justice system. They are not appointed by a political party. It's much more a normal job and you're not appointed for life.
for some things it's nice to have them not democratic :P

Rodak
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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The legal action following Senna's death was due purely to the Italian legal system, not because there was an indication of wrong doing by the team. There is some particular issue in Italian law that meant the team were potentially liable.
There certainly has been private litigation issues with F1. In 1975 Mark Donohue died of a brain injury after a tire failure on his March led to a crash. He seemed okay but died the next day of a cerebral hemorrhage. His wife sued the Goodyear Rubber Co. for the tire failure and finally settled out of court for undisclosed damages. Better watch out Pirelli!

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Big Tea
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Rodak wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 pm
The legal action following Senna's death was due purely to the Italian legal system, not because there was an indication of wrong doing by the team. There is some particular issue in Italian law that meant the team were potentially liable.
There certainly has been private litigation issues with F1. In 1975 Mark Donohue died of a brain injury after a tire failure on his March led to a crash. He seemed okay but died the next day of a cerebral hemorrhage. His wife sued the Goodyear Rubber Co. for the tire failure and finally settled out of court for undisclosed damages. Better watch out Pirelli!
You can bet the company lawyers of both component makers and FIA also know of that and have constantly 'reviewed the situation' to cover rear ends if it happens again.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Jolle
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:05 pm
Rodak wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 pm
The legal action following Senna's death was due purely to the Italian legal system, not because there was an indication of wrong doing by the team. There is some particular issue in Italian law that meant the team were potentially liable.
There certainly has been private litigation issues with F1. In 1975 Mark Donohue died of a brain injury after a tire failure on his March led to a crash. He seemed okay but died the next day of a cerebral hemorrhage. His wife sued the Goodyear Rubber Co. for the tire failure and finally settled out of court for undisclosed damages. Better watch out Pirelli!
You can bet the company lawyers of both component makers and FIA also know of that and have constantly 'reviewed the situation' to cover rear ends if it happens again.
neglect cases are of course still very present, like HAAS made to a circuit because they didn't prepare the track well.

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Big Tea
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:07 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:05 pm
Rodak wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 pm

There certainly has been private litigation issues with F1. In 1975 Mark Donohue died of a brain injury after a tire failure on his March led to a crash. He seemed okay but died the next day of a cerebral hemorrhage. His wife sued the Goodyear Rubber Co. for the tire failure and finally settled out of court for undisclosed damages. Better watch out Pirelli!
You can bet the company lawyers of both component makers and FIA also know of that and have constantly 'reviewed the situation' to cover rear ends if it happens again.
neglect cases are of course still very present, like HAAS made to a circuit because they didn't prepare the track well.
Yeh, you can not sign away your rights to protection you would expect.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Rodak
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Re: Could the threat of litigation effect F1?

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Yeh, you can not sign away your rights to protection you would expect.
We took my FF1600 VanDiemen out to Seattle International Raceway (now called Pacific Receway) for a test session. I paid my money and signed their waiver, we got the car ready and I drove a slow observation lap. When I came out of the last turn where the road course joins the drag strip there was a chain across the track, which I saw and stopped. If I had been going at speed I would have been a dead man.

I was pretty pissed at the track for leaving that chain up and went into the office to complain and suggest they had a little bit of responsibility to keep the track safe; they just sort of looked at me like I was stupid and shrugged their shoulders without any sort of apology. After all, I had signed the waiver absolving them of any responsibility. They certainly would have lost a big lawsuit.