is Lewis the best ever rookie?

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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A thought or two for those

of you that have grown tired of the Brit media's fireworks about Hamilton: I'm sure that a lot of it is just empty noise (and the ones making it are likely just to search for the most marketable headline, so they'll change their tone in a heartbeat if need be), but what is remarkable is that the most experienced commentators are among those voices - and very vocally indeed.

This, I presume, is because of two reasons. First, everything what we've seen so far points to one conclusion - Lewis is the real thing. Second, Alonso has come to the team in a position of power and if some speculations are to be believed, not merely based on his WDCs but he has certain assurances of position and performance too. McLaren, or i.e. Ron, have historically run a tight ship, so this would really be a departure from the team's tradition. Some control relinguished in the quest for success in a team that previously hasn't given much of a say for it's drivers as far as management is concerned.

So, those with an eye for F1 politics are beating the drum so that Hamilton's popularity would counteract any form of propability based or predetermined favoritism that could devalue Hamilton's effort. Protected by publicity? Perhaps. So, if you want the "kid" to be able to show what he's really made of - grin and bear it. Or push the mute button and open the F1 live timing on your computer while you're watching the race.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

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Hamilton is doing a pretty good job at, er, his job. I doubt any of the team nor sponsors would have any complaints.

I've always wondered why the British media so often big-upped Button when year after year he just hasn't come up the goods - granted he's not always had the equipment to perform at the top - and his only race win in reality was by virtue of others falling around him (at least Johnny Herbert's famous wins in the rain was done with cunning and good strategy) and not by showing superior speed.

Rob W

DaveKillens
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Rob W wrote:I've always wondered why the British media so often big-upped Button when year after year he just hasn't come up the goods -
From the media perspective, any news is good news, and Jenson BUtton has provided lots of fodder for the media mill. As well, he is (was maybe now) the top Brit GP driver, a role full of glamour and something many schoolboys hope to emulate.
Now that Hamilton has arrived, the focus and attention from the media will diminish, leaving Button either a bit of relaxation, or the perceived necessity to do something spectacular (or dumb) to keep the spotlight on him.

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Rob W
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DaveKillens wrote:From the media perspective, any news is good news, and Jenson BUtton has provided lots of fodder for the media mill...
For sure. It happens everywhere... media placing tons of pressure on local sportspeople... Perhaps now the spotlight is off a bit Button might come home with a few more wins.. :P

Rob W

chasefreak
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007, 06:03
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if button has to come home with a few more wins then the car he drives needs to be more competitive ....
hamilton is doing a real good job... i was watching the videos of the maylasian GP and there were lot of things he did that a rookie would not do
so it seems that he is paying a lot of attention to who ever is teaching him

waynes
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Joined: 23 Aug 2006, 23:23
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chasefreak wrote:it seems that he is paying a lot of attention to who ever is teaching him
Mika H + Ron
Ciro Pabón wrote:Well, waynes, Danica has no idea what she's missing... :lol:
you are quite correct mate :D
DaveKillens wrote:And JPM sure came out of the box firing all rockets
damn i forgot about JPM - AWESOME!!!!

chasefreak
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TBH the guy has the real potential in him... 3 races r good enough to make positives in him...
bahrain race proved he has the champion make and yeee for me he is the best rookie till date.....
all the risk that mclaren put in to him is paying off. and in big time..
he was way faster than Alonso ...so this time he beat alonso hands down...

Torso
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007, 12:38

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No Hamilton is not the best ever rookie. Neither was Montoya. But they shared the fortune of starting f1 in the potentially best/fastest car on the grid.

So who was the best ever rookie?

In my opinion MSchumacher was that.

In his rookie season MSchumacher beat Ayrton Senna and finnished 2nd in the WDC by complementing a mid-field car in a way that was quite jaw dropping. And not to forget how MSchumacher blew away his teammates!

Remember how superiour the WilliamsRenault was back then?

Anyway Hamilton is doing a fantastic job and clearly there`s no reason for Alonso to feel "comfortable/secure" about his no1 seat in McLaren.

Barcelona could see Hamilton win his first, if Massa strikes into trouble.

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wazojugs
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[quote="Torso"]In his rookie season MSchumacher beat Ayrton Senna and finnished 2nd in the WDC by complementing a mid-field car.[quote]

which history book are you reading.......Schumi in his debut year 1991 finished joint 12th with Bertrand Gachot and Jyrki Jarvilehto Lehto. Senna finished as world champion, in 1992 his first full seanson schumi finished 3rd. Please read your history books.

anyhow hammi has set a new record of finishing on the podium for the 1st three races as a rookie so he not that bad.

emburmak
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No, but he is very, very, very close. 8)

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boban-mk
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Probably he has as a rookie the best car. He is not that fast, beat Alonso only this qualifications, and had a 4 laps less fuel. He pass Massa at Malesia start, not because of his move, but because Alonso was infront of Massa and block him to go faster on the second turn exit. I'm sure that if Button drives this McLaren will take pols and wins, so it's not all about driver. If you have wining car, everything is easy. If someone whatched GP2 last year, it was like F1 in 2005, LH win because of having most reliable car, Picke Jr was much better driver. But this is F1, and driver abilities are maybe just 20% of success.

Torso
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wazojugs wrote:
Torso wrote:In his rookie season MSchumacher beat Ayrton Senna and finnished 2nd in the WDC by complementing a mid-field car.

which history book are you reading.......Schumi in his debut year 1991 finished joint 12th with Bertrand Gachot and Jyrki Jarvilehto Lehto. Senna finished as world champion, in 1992 his first full seanson schumi finished 3rd. Please read your history books.

anyhow hammi has set a new record of finishing on the podium for the 1st three races as a rookie so he not that bad.
sorry I ment to say MSchumacher beat Senna (in what counts as his rookie season 1992) and finnished 2nd to the Renaults wich were technically vastly superiour vs Benneton that season. And as u obviously know he also put a big gap down to his teammate in comparison. Much bigger than what Hamilton done vs Alonso. And particularly MSchumachers drive at Spa that year was simply mind blowing!

That puts MSchumacher up as my no1 rookie of all time. Hamilton has a lot to prove if he hopes to beat that.. beating Alonso on pace is good for the record but since I personally never rated Alonso as anything extra special in terms of raw speed I think Hamiltons strengths can only be measured vs Alonso in terms of consistancy. Alonso is extreemely consistant and that made him a double WDC in a car/tyre-package that was equally consistant, not pace.

History has proven us wrong about drivers many times in respect to how much easier it is to look good in a great car... but only when tested like MS was in his early days with Benetton and likewise in his early days with Ferrari really gives proof that a driver is beyond ordinary..

BTW in my opinion the driver of the day in Bahrain was David Coulthard.

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Ciro Pabón
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Torso wrote:sorry I ment to say MSchumacher beat Senna (in what counts as his rookie season 1992)... And particularly MSchumachers drive at Spa that year was simply mind blowing!
Look, I have a simple policy: I don't bash drivers. But this time I have to say something, as politely as I can.

Could you explain what was "mind blowing" about Schumacher 1992 Spa race?

This is what I saw, when I was young and beautiful... ;)

Mansell got the pole, Senna took the lead away from him at the start. Schumacher, on a meritorious third place on the qualy, had a big off at Stavelot in lap 30 and decided to go for wet tyres. I saw it with my own eyes and is a little disturbing to see every young man nowadays claiming that was "tactical brilliance" when, from my particular point of view, he was the least capable of the front field in rainy conditions. That was my first thought: "well, the rookie made a mistake".

He was mighty scared, if you ask for my impression, and after the race he declared, in his usual style, he had done it because when Martin Brundle (Martin Brundle, for heaven's sake!) had overtaken him, he had noticed Mr. Brundle's tyres were worn out, so he decided to change his own tyres... that was the first time I saw a driver lying unashamedly in front of a journalist: there was a huge silence when he said that.

Everybody was like: "So, he was not able to see his own tyres? WTF? Why was he in need of watching other people's tyres to realize his own were worn out?" I did not like the guy from that particular race on very much: he had not the slightest need to say such an incongrous phrase. I remember Senna was moving his head side to side in disbelief: he was not particularly fond of exaggerations, let me tell you.

Williams did not react until later to change tyres, because no one of their drivers was that unexperienced under wet conditions.

Even with that bad stroke of luck, I can assure you Mr. Mansell was closing quickly on Schumacher when his exhaust broke and started to fall in position. I don't have the numbers at hand (I tried to find lap times but I couldn't) but I have more or less good memory.

Senna had gambled before that rain will stop and remained ahead. Rain did no cease, so he had to stop for wets after a brave effort that made him lost a lot of time. His late charge was not enough, he only managed to pass Hakkinen.

Schumacher was fortunate to have his big off right when the track was starting to get wet: he changed tyres before everybody and it paid off. That was a race for Mansell, had his car not broke.

I'm not sure if everybody is repeating legends about Schumi based on comments by people that did not even see the race, BTW. He is a great driver, but he definitely was not the "mother of Superman" at that moment in time, in my humble opinion (no offense intended, pleeze :)). He had better races, if you ask me.

That year, for a regular fan like me, he was an extremely good rookie that had been beaten solidly by Nick Heidfeld (whose caliber everybody is discovering now!) when karting together and that had got a wonderful car thanks to a management that, previously, only rock stars had. That management went on to squeeze every drop they could from that victory, a first for him. Good for him, but to see people claiming THAT stroke of luck was an extraordinary performance, when in my opinion have no idea what they're speaking about, makes me boil, specially when "Rain master" stories started to sprout a few years later.

Sorry, it must be the latin blood. Again, no offense intended, please ellaborate as much as you want. I'm all ears. ;)

Oh, and do you really think David Coulthard was the driver of the race at Bahrain? Sure, he had a great race.

Did you see Lewis Hamilton or did not? He made a historical performance, becoming the first rookie ever to get three second places in a row in his three first races, something never done before: this converts him in the best rookie ever (not counting Mr. Baghetti OTHER stroke of luck). Bahrain was a special race because of that. Claiming that Mr. Coulthard, a great driver I admire, overshadowed that is a little strange. Could you ellaborate on that too, please?
Last edited by Ciro Pabón on 15 Apr 2007, 20:59, edited 1 time in total.
Ciro

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Tom
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Actually Ciro, although I don't agree MS was the best rookie, Martin himself said that Michael must have seen the state of his rear tyres because if Martin could see his own he would have pitted that lap.

And David really did pull of the drive of the season (I'm biased i know) getting that car from 21st, past Button (who started 16th) on the first lap, pulling off that stunningly brave overtake on the Renault at the end of the straight and making it to seventh before the car failed him. That took some driving and despit the controversy in Oz you can't not respect such an effort. Shame he can't do that from his usual start position around 15th.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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Ciro Pabón
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Tom, sorry, I still do not get the comment: don't these guys have rearview mirrors?
Ciro

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