BMW & Williams under investigation!

[timbo]

I did some further

digging about how fuel is handled etc. and interesting details emerged. Small deviations from acceptable figures aren't that uncommon (especially in highly variable conditions) and it is highly likely that such events have been registered at many races during the season, but no action has been taken thus far. Is the FIA to open an investigation to all the races of 2007 while they're at it? That would certainly yield surprising results.

Fuel is handled by the teams in containers that hold 100 kilograms each; such an amount takes a certain amount of time to cool/warm up and we're dealing with a flammable substance prone to evaporation, too. There is a lag when changing the temperature throughout the mass and sometimes there's not enough time to get the figures exactly right. The containers are cooled down to a specific temperature in the morning of the day of intended usage, but I didn't quite get how that figure is determined. With a weather forecast?

Weren't there people here who work/have worked for F1 fuel suppliers? I think so. Hopefully they can corroborate or discredit what I've found and elaborate on what is being discussed here. It'd be a great help, to get to the bottom of this. Everything I've read thus far suggests (well, to me at least), that McLaren's inquiry will get nowhere as far as the results from Brazil are concerned.

Hi! I'm a physicochemist and such processes aren't uncommon for me. That's why I was very surprised with hearing that story. The 10 degree difference rule seems awkward to me. There are plenty of reasons why - innaccuracy of ambient temperature detection, probability of rapid changes in ambient conditions that may cause deviation from the limits. Also, to punish the team it should be proved that they deliberately broken the rule, so it should be proven that they intentionally cooled fuel to illegal temperature before the race. As I said before in my mind there should be proposed absolute temperature limit for the fuel temperature.

[checkered]

Hi! I'm a physicochemist and such processes aren't uncommon for me. That's why I was very surprised with hearing that story. The 10 degree difference rule seems awkward to me. There are plenty of reasons why - innaccuracy of ambient temperature detection, probability of rapid changes in ambient conditions that may cause deviation from the limits. Also, to punish the team it should be proved that they deliberately broken the rule, so it should be proven that they intentionally cooled fuel to illegal temperature before the race. As I said before in my mind there should be proposed absolute temperature limit for the fuel temperature.

Thank you for

the insight. I was thinking (roughly) along the same lines. Well, now the issue is going to go into the appeals court and it's in their discretion to do pretty much anything. Hopefully it will also result in a clarification of the fuel temperature rules in general.

[Ray]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41175

What a lame witch hunt. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Had Super Aguri or Spyker been found having cold fuel, McLaren wouldn't care. Their main and only goal is to have the two teams DQ'd and Lewis crowned champ. If they say otherwise, they are blatantly lying, and I have no respect for them.

It held no advantage whatsoever for the fuel to be 2-4 degrees cooler than it should be. Lewis wasn't going to catch them anyway. It's a witch hunt. Kimi beat him fair and square and McLaren are trying to salvage something, anything, from a disastrous season. Losers.

[kimi]

well many still believe that its fair in mclaren's point of view to win the title in court as they lost the constructor's title in court.but its not right.

mclaren had 218 points(adding alonso n lewis's total points)
now subtracting 15 points(hungary penalty) means mclaren have 203 points with ferrari having 204 points.

so mclaren again lost it on track,not in court.

now coming to the topic if the FIA can anyhow prove that the teams broke any rules and it is justified then the only penalty i can imagine is constructor points being stripped off.but driver's should not be penalised for this issue.

hope i am right..

[Rob W]

I know what McLaren are up to... If they succeed and Lewis is confirmed as WDC they will run with the numbers 1 & 2 next year.

As it stands however, and because they got zero points in the constructor's championship, in 2008 they will run with numbers 23 and 24 which I very much doubt they will like.

They'll have to widen their nose-cone to fit a two digit number on it for the first time in decades.

Rob W

[eenter]

As it stands however, and because they got zero points in the constructor's championship, in 2008 they will run with numbers 23 and 24 which I very much doubt they will like.

Wrong.

[dumrick]

Wrong? Why?

[axle]

Wrong.

I assume you've assumed that Prodrive won't make an appearance?

In which case you're a little premature.

[astsmtl]

Wrong? Why?

I think because numbers are assigned in respect to WDC positions.

• 1. Raikkonen
  2. Massa (because of Raikkonen)
  3. Hamilton
  4. Alonso
  5. Heidfeld
  6. Kubica
  ...

P.S. Alonso's number 4 - assuming he stays in McLaren.

[axle]

Wrong? Why?

I think because numbers are assigned in respect to WDC positions.

• 1. Raikkonen
  2. Massa (because of Raikkonen)
  3. Hamilton
  4. Alonso
  5. Heidfeld
  6. Kubica
  ...

I thought only the actual WDC over-rode the WCC order?? As the cars are always numbered in pairs...

I'm sure someone will post the right page in the FIA rule book soon.

But if it's WCC positions with the exception of the WDC then would McLaren still be 21/22 because Prodrive would be new...and therefor given the last numbers?

[antrock]

numbers are assigned in respect of the teams WCC position the previous year except that the WDC and his team get number 1 & 2.

Kimi 1
Massa 2
Nick 3
Kubica 4
...

Hamilton 21

[johny]

mclaren is the 11th team, and don't forget that no one has nº 13

[dumrick]

Exactly. That gives Macca numbers 22 & 23 next year, right? Prodrive, if they race, would have 24 & 25.

[modbaraban]

disregard

[Tom]

Numbers are assigned by WDC points, as stated above the Ferrari's would be 1-2 with Kimi leading, Mclaren 3-4 and BMW 5-6...

and eenter, welcome to the forum and everything but please don't just post 'Wrong!' with no explanation as to what is right or you just look like an arrogant fool, which I'm sure you're not.