Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

[ISLAMATRON]

Massa's injury doesn't look life threatening, but I hope his eye is okay. You can't race with an injured eye.

Or a recent concussion.

[WhiteBlue]

This is indeed a nasty damage to the helmet and visor. There is hope that he did not suffer severe injury to the eye and skull. They will certainly CT him and we will know more later. From the video he could also have injuries to the hands or arms because he did not take them from the steering wheel. This was probably one of the worst positions an object can strike a helmet. It looks like the spring fractured the helmet and pushed the helmet rim into his face.

I wish for Felipe that this isn't as serious as it looks and that he takes a full and speedy recovery.

[tk421]

i dont want to think about what would have happened if it hit just the visor instead of the helmet. anyone know how much a heave spring weighs?

[WhiteBlue]

A central hit on the visor would have probably been less dangerous. Those visors are bullet proof. The edge is probably the weakest point of that structure.

[ISLAMATRON]

A central hit on the visor would have probably been less dangerous. Those visors are bullet proof. The edge is probably the weakest point of that structure.

doubt it, that would have they worst place, straight on at the visor would have been disastrous, might be bulletproof(doubt that too) but it aint spring proof.

This is the 3rd spring we are talking about here right?, thats the only spring still on these cars anymore pretty much.

[Giblet]

I heard enough of this stuff after the Surtees accident... look, accidents in motor racing are always "freak", but that does not mean that the risks can't be reduced.

The FIA needs to seriously consider shielded cockpits. Yes, they could potentially trap drivers inside the car, but do we not now have the technology to make them safe? It just needs a failsafe way for the marshalls to access the driver after an accident.

I wish the teams innovated regarding safety like they innovate when it comes to diffusers.

Nomination: lamest Post of the Year! [-X

Actually, I'm nominating your personal attack on a new users post.

Don't attack peoples or their posts personally, it's just not cool, and does nothing to help this discussion, or any other one.

I've already got you in the back of my mind for a prize for something of the year, but I'll keep it to myself.

As for Massa, and these kind of freak accidents, we will see more of them if teams have to start cutting corners on their budgets. Who knows why that piece came loose? Maybe they cheaped on a lot of fasteners, some epoxy, or just a lesser paid person, it's hard to say.

Imagine if the maintenance crews for air liners were thinned out, and corners were cut financially?

What if the drivers helmets had a steel cage like a hockey mask in front of the mask? Might look goofy, but Masa would only have a bent cage right now, and maybe a concussion, but likely no injury to his face.

[ISLAMATRON]

bit far fetched to say that cost cutting can lead to more accidents. F1 is the most expensive motorsport ou tthere and this is the first time I've ever seen a spring fly off a car. Never seen it in relatively cheap CART/Champ car/IRL ever!

[Giblet]

Big budgets allow for due diligence. They allow for testing on open tracks as well, where parts flying off cars might be found, whereas a 7 or 8 post rig will not.

Small budgets do not help safety.

Cutting "safe" corners can have "unsafe" effects.

It'a also easier for a bespoke series to have safer cars, as there is data from all the teams to make improvements to the car.

I don't think the cars are going to start falling apart, but there is definitely breathing room for more problems.

[ISLAMATRON]

Big budgets allow for due diligence. They allow for testing on open tracks as well, where parts flying off cars might be found, whereas a 7 or 8 post rig will not.

Small budgets do not help safety.

Cutting "safe" corners can have "unsafe" effects.

It'a also easier for a bespoke series to have safer cars, as there is data from all the teams to make improvements to the car.

I don't think the cars are going to start falling apart, but there is definitely breathing room for more problems.

due diligence, does not really cost much, unless you are paying a bunch of idiots to supervise each other

[RacingManiac]

consider the fact that the original budget proposal are going to limit track and even rig testing, there is definitely more chance of things may not be performing up to the standard of the simulation. Computer models are only as good as the user's setup, thats why you always try to correlate sim with physical testing, be it as vehicle model vs track testing, or FEA vs physcial test.

[Scotracer]

[Queue bad taste joke]

Boing

[/joke]

[RacingManiac]

A central hit on the visor would have probably been less dangerous. Those visors are bullet proof. The edge is probably the weakest point of that structure.

Bullet proof maybe, but a Titanium spring still weighs much more than a bullet, and the energy of the impact to the helmet 160-170mph would have been pretty great, and the spring is unlikely to collapse on impact, unlike a bullet when hitting another object...Looking at the damage on the actual helmet it was a very hard hit....

So uh, who can Ferrari put in the car, or can they run a different driver for the race? Gene? Badoer? Schumacher?

[Giblet]

Big budgets allow for due diligence. They allow for testing on open tracks as well, where parts flying off cars might be found, whereas a 7 or 8 post rig will not.

Small budgets do not help safety.

Cutting "safe" corners can have "unsafe" effects.

It'a also easier for a bespoke series to have safer cars, as there is data from all the teams to make improvements to the car.

I don't think the cars are going to start falling apart, but there is definitely breathing room for more problems.

due diligence, does not really cost much, unless you are paying a bunch of idiots to supervise each other

yes yes but time IS money, and safety takes time, which most teams have less of. All I am saying is there is more potential for this kind when restrictive budgets are in place.

[ISLAMATRON]

MAssa out, best wishes, get well soon buddy, enjoy the long break

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77273

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1847.shtml

[RacingManiac]

Also, thinking about a fighter canopy style cockpit, the problem with something like a explosive bolt release would be a) accidental tripping, and b) shards of carbon flying off the car, maybe not towards the driver, but the track marshalls. Look at the on board fire extinquisher, which has multiple safety usually to prevent accidental discharge, and that still happens with regularity in most cars. Or at the same token, even the KERS system with the electric shock potential, that also have happened before. And in an F1 accident, unlike a fighter plane where the plane would have been crashed into the mountain or something, the small explosion blowing the cockpit open is not the same concern as getting the pilot out, on the track side to extract the driver, the marshall would have swarmed to the car, and have a small explosion then can potentially hurt all the marshall around the car....

I do think something probably should be done to the open cockpit nature of the the openwheel cars, while in other series there are open cockpit as well, the bits and pieces may be contained within the bodywork, where as in open wheel cars the car climbing another and into driver's cockpit height is common place...