BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

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SZ
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by SZ » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:22 pm

Hopefully they didn't discover this via customer feedback :D

jddh1
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by jddh1 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:50 pm

well, they can ask for a narrower distribution curve or not sign the contract. if they agree to the standard deviation then the producer is not doing anything wrong, imho

xpensive
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by xpensive » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:03 am

I guess the morale of the story is that even if you think two components under the same specification are equal, they are not.

There are degrees even in hell, as they say.
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by tok-tokkie » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Saab could have specified that the resistors comply with the normal distribution - which those did not.

xpensive
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by xpensive » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Next time I see those bums, I'll let them know.
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by jon-mullen » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:09 pm

Next time you see them they'll probably be at a Six Sigma seminar given by Toyota.
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xpensive
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by xpensive » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:26 pm

Point is, that the original +/- specification from Saab was not randomly selected at all, it was well inside what was needed for the quality of performance asked.

It was just that this supplier had higher standards, shipping them what was basically their rejects, that's all.
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timbo
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by timbo » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:19 pm

Another spin to the story
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77574

Interesting light on new Concorde - although "Concorde Agreement, which guarantees payments worth millions" phrase might probably still be an assumption - "if our team finishes WCC not less when... it would be worth..." that sort of stuff.

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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by WhiteBlue » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:41 am

Obviously BMW-Sauber isn't for sale at 1€. With the cost of competing going to go down it will be more interesting to buy the team. At least more than it was in2008 when Honda pulled out.
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SZ
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by SZ » Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:55 am

WhiteBlue wrote:Obviously BMW-Sauber isn't for sale at 1€. With the cost of competing going to go down it will be more interesting to buy the team. At least more than it was in2008 when Honda pulled out.
Well... that's the million dollar question, isn't it? Is the cost of competing going to go down significantly next year or not? There's not much transparency surrounding the new Concorde at present.

The Sauber comment on guaranteed revenues... purely speculative but could it hint at a bigger slice of television revenues for teams in exchange for relief from cost reductions under FOTA pressure (basically what FOTA has wanted all the while)? If so, this wouldn't be a necessarily more enticing prospect for new teams... you'd still have get competitive quickly to get a useful portion (if any) of that revenue pie. Such a scenario also wouldn't devalue the team sufficiently to render it any more affordable, because F1 would still cost as much as it did previously and the market barrier$ to entry would be similar.

All purely speculative though.

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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by xpensive » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:29 am

Still most relevant speculations SZ.

I'm stuck with what really happened in Munich ten days ago, the situation indicates to me that BMW's decision to leave F1 at this particular point in time was made rather in a haste, which begs for a reason which is not obvious to me.
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SZ
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by SZ » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:57 am

I'd bet you a small collection of EUR that it's been brewing for quite some time. (But I only have a small collection).

An 'early' decision is a cost effective exit. This is one where someone's come along and bought the whole operation. The seller gets a payment covering the plant, the right to the championship (if other agree), and they don't have to pay out the staff.

A 'late' decision - what I think we have here - is one when the seller announces they're prepared to write the whole thing, staff payouts included off the books, and take the bad press for putting 300+ people out of work and killing a team that took a Swiss bloke in a not-pro-motorsports country 20+ years to build. Admittedly with the BMW press machine in eco overdrive at the moment, I don't think any of their target customers will care a great deal. They'll call it necessary.

There's going to be a mad dash for people to put sponsorship packages together to save the team, but I'm betting the Piquet's aside and given there's more likelihood of someone wanting to put their money into one of the new teams. BMW-Sauber is located in a non-motorsport town, there's little infrastructure based locally compared to an English or Italian based entrant, given the entry fee is now zero it's just as easy to setup a team wherever you want as opposed to setting up in a country you might not want to be in and with a team size you might not want to support.

Facilities at Hinwil are bloody fantastic though. No wonder they don't want to sell for nothing.

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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by Fil » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:06 am

xpensive wrote:Still most relevant speculations SZ.

I'm stuck with what really happened in Munich ten days ago, the situation indicates to me that BMW's decision to leave F1 at this particular point in time was made rather in a haste, which begs for a reason which is not obvious to me.
The BMW targets always ended with a championship in 09. There was never any talk of any goals or targets beyond this. They probably planned to leave the sport as world champions.
The new Concorde Agreement being signed by all involved obviously forced the board's hand earlier than intended.

Another thought is the factory is worth more under current rules than where the sport will be in a few years. Basically they'll sell for more now than in 3yrs.
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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by timbo » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:12 am

Fil wrote:Another thought is the factory is worth more under current rules than where the sport will be in a few years. Basically they'll sell for more now than in 3yrs.
Very reasonable assumption. If they stay for another 3 years they'd spend more and will sell for less money. Supposedly their marketing department doesn't view F1 WDC or WCC title as significant for the brand.
I wonder if that'd change if Mercedes will stress their F1 involvement more in ads.

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Re: BMW to leave Formula One at end of 2009

Post by xpensive » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:18 am

Now that's a very interesting analyzis, Fil.

Never saw it quite like that before, but if you are correct, it was a rather bold strategy on BMW's part indeed.

But finding a buyer for the Hinwil facilities is where I'm afraid they might stumble, as SZ wrote, not an ideal F1 location?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"