Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

autogyro wrote:It is DF that has ruined the finer points of O/S U/S in F1.
I liked the comparison with a stock car on a loose surface half sideways through the apex.
Picture taken @ 1981 -- ground effect at it's peak
Image

autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Good catch by a brilliant driver but not what I am saying at all.

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Image

maybe something more from your child hood autogyro? :lol:

Its bio fueled has no wings no gearbox losses and a spec set of engines

RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

nah the engine is not spec....you can have some wildly varying standard for "1 horsepower"...lol

autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Certainly a drivers sport.
I would not suggest you try to put one in a wind tunnel.

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

autogyro wrote:Certainly a drivers sport.
I would not suggest you try to put one in a wind tunnel.
I do believe that gentlemen has a redbull shark fin on his head.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Don't forget the engine's "exhaust" :mrgreen:
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
the stig
0
Joined: 08 Jul 2008, 23:56
Location: Gex, France
Contact:

Longitudinal Weight Distribution: Oversteer and Understeer

Post

Hey guys,

I'm a little confused with the physics behind the rule: Reaerward weight bias = oversteer, and front weight bias=understeer.

The way I see it, the momentum of the car is the same regardless, and by shifting wiehgt forward the normal force on the front tyres is larger, causing more grip and hence oversteer.

When I heard I was wrong, I thought about it another way: The centripetal force required to keep the rear end in line is larger if the rear end has more mass, hence moving the balance rearwards will cause oversteer as is the rule. Problem is though, wouldn't this increase in centripetal force required by fullfilled by the extra reaer grip due to increased normal force?

Thanks guys ;)
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 08 Apr 2010, 18:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged the 'Longitudinal Weight Distribution: Oversteer and Understeer' thread into this one,
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES

Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Longitudinal Weight Distribution: Oversteer and Understeer

Post

Tires work more 'efficiently' (higher coefficient of friction) with less load. So while yes, as you put more mass on the front axle the tires WILL produce more total lateral FORCE capacity.. it is at a decreasing rate relative to how much load you've added.

Peak coefficient of friction is what matters in this case, for limit trim.

However, if you have forward 'load' transfer from acceleration, it is the opposite scenario. You've added normal force to the front axle without increasing the mass.. opposite in the rear axle.. so forward load transfer will (all things being equal) tend to shift the car balance more toward oversteer.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

BakokJ
0
Joined: 08 Mar 2017, 02:27

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Is there any point to control oversteer and understeer using anti roll bars?

Tommy Cookers
617
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

BakokJ wrote:Is there any point to control oversteer and understeer using anti roll bars?
an oversteering car is eg a 95 mph rear fixed to a 100 mph front, so corners at 95 mph
an understeering car is eg a 95 mph front fixed to a 100 mph rear, so corners at 95 mph

a balanced car can corner at 98 mph
that's what adjustable (at one time driver-adjustable) ARBs have been doing for 58 years

mrluke
33
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Oversteer can give you a more stable platform, i.e. when you watch offroad racing or rallying or similar by sliding the car around the drivers can navigate the course quickly while still being able to react to changes in grip / surface or unexpected tightening of corners. In contrast if the car is "gripping" its way around then a patch of unexpected dirt/reduced grip on the turn in point or at the apex quickly ends with a car in the wall.

But as said by all other posters is depends on your car and your track. Anything with a lot of aero is going to need to be a lot more careful about yaw angle and the longer the course / race distance the more importance there is on looking after tyres.

gold333
7
Joined: 16 May 2011, 02:59

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Senna used to say (in his book) that in single seater circuit racing an ideal setup is one that is neutral to oversteering in slow corners and slightly understeering in medium-high speed corners. Over 50-70 laps it was the wisest setup choice he used to say.
F1 car width now 2.0m (same as 1993-1997). Lets go crazy and bring the 2.2m cars back (<1992).

hpras
15
Joined: 12 May 2009, 06:15

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer, you hit with the rear.

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Advantages of Over/Understeer

Post

hpras wrote:Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer, you hit with the rear.
Or in Nascar parlance: "tite iz win yoo hit tha wawl with yer nose, luse iz win ya hit tha wawl with yer tell"

Edit: If JT is still around: I know NASCAR is highly detail oriented engineering sport, but I'm from Alabama so I'm allowed to make "redneck" jokes with impunity.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher