COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Post Reply

What do you think of the prospect of a USGP 2012 at Austin Texas

Good thinking. Place has good infra structure and nice climate in winter.
126
47%
Not good as it has no motor sport tradition in the US.
23
9%
I will wait to see how it will shape up.
97
36%
I don't care.
23
9%
 
Total votes: 269

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

raymondu999 wrote:You do realise it's only Turn 1 that's elevated? You go 133ft up, then after the apex it drops by another 133ft?
Circuit de Catalunya has as much elevation change as this track.

As I said, some of the other corners will be fun, 2 and 10 but there is nothing great about turn 1

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Even with the first few gridslot rows on an uphill incline? (If I remember correctly)
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

WilliamsF1 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:Why would it be better downhill?
Have you ever driven a car on a hill road?

If yes, which is better. Uphill or downhill?
They're not creating a thrill ride for my truck.

Would you rather watch a race car attempt to overtake another on a portion of track that promotes stability (the trough of a valley) or one that promotes instability (the crest of a hill)?

For what it's worth, the reason why Spa's famed uphill corner complex is known as Eau Rouge (the crest) instead of Raidillon (the dip) is because the crest is the hard part.

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

bhallg2k wrote:
WilliamsF1 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:Why would it be better downhill?
Have you ever driven a car on a hill road?

If yes, which is better. Uphill or downhill?
They're not creating a thrill ride for my truck.

Would you rather watch a race car attempt to overtake another on a portion of track that promotes stability (the trough of a valley) or one that promotes instability (the crest of a hill)?

For what it's worth, the reason why Spa's famed uphill corner complex is known as Eau Rouge (the crest) instead of Raidillon (the dip) is because the crest is the hard part.
Have you tried driving Eau Rouge in the wrong direction (Raidillon down into Eau Rouge) in any racing sim?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ucm9J2-E_c[/youtube]
Last edited by FW17 on 22 May 2012, 07:19, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Any idea where this pic is taken. Found it on COTA FB page

Image

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

bhallg2k wrote:For what it's worth, the reason why Spa's famed uphill corner complex is known as Eau Rouge (the crest) instead of Raidillon (the dip) is because the crest is the hard part.
Isn't a crest the top bit of a wave? That would make Raidillon a crest and Eau Rouge a trough. Eau Rouge is actually the dinky (when viewed in isolation) little left kink before the long uphill right.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

I actually Googled for the correct terminology with regard to peak/crest/summit/ridge, etc., and valley/ravine/trough/gully, etc., but I wasn't patient enough to wade through the results. So, I just winged it.

As it's been explained to me and others who watch F1 on Speed, the dip/trough ("little left kink" area) is Raidillon and everything else, including the crest/peak/whatever, is Eau Rouge.

Either way, the moral of the story is that the Circuit of the Americas has, in my view, done precious few things correctly throughout their existence, and Turn 1 is one of those things. Video games run in reverse notwithstanding, I don't see anything at all that would indicate a downhill turn would be more potent than the reality of what's on offer.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Speed got it the wrong way around - Eau Rouge is most definitely the left kink. Raidillon is the "over the hill" part
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

raymondu999 wrote:You do realise it's only Turn 1 that's elevated?
I don't think so. Here's a very crude elevation profile I made of COTA a while back.

Image
Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

raymondu999 wrote:Speed got it the wrong way around - Eau Rouge is most definitely the left kink. Raidillon is the "over the hill" part
You have also got the stability argument in reverse. Going down hill you have less mechanical stability than up hill.

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Nope, I made the stability argument, and, as usual, I wasn't thorough.

The downhill instability to which you refer is, naturally, only possible if there's a hill in the first place. The cars here will go up the hill, turn left, and then immediately be going downhill. The destabilizing factors are all the result of the the hill.

If they were traveling downhill toward a corner at the bottom, the cars would tend to become stable at the apex and ever more stable upon the exit uphill.

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

bhallg2k wrote:Nope, I made the stability argument, and, as usual, I wasn't thorough.

The downhill instability to which you refer is, naturally, only possible if there's a hill in the first place. The cars here will go up the hill, turn left, and then immediately be going downhill. The destabilizing factors are all the result of the the hill.

If they were traveling downhill toward a corner at the bottom, the cars would tend to become stable at the apex and ever more stable upon the exit uphill.
So you are saying, turn 1 is BS, it just sets it up for a good turn 2

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

He's saying a hill is better than a valley.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Banking would absolutely ruin this corner. What makes the corner difficult is the fact that it flattens in the middle of the braking zone and then turns downhill at the apex. It will be very hard to get just right, and if you get it wrong then your entire first sector is blown.

It's also one of the few first corners that Tilke hasn't ruined with a turn back.

User avatar
FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Pup wrote:Banking would absolutely ruin this corner. What makes the corner difficult is the fact that it flattens in the middle of the braking zone and then turns downhill at the apex. It will be very hard to get just right, and if you get it wrong then your entire first sector is blown.

It's also one of the few first corners that Tilke hasn't ruined with a turn back.

What would have made it good is, if it was not a hairpin

Post Reply