Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Lewis will never admit this but I feel he learned bucket loads from Jenson Button, this almost certainly moulded him in to the driver he is today.
Agreed. I saw it happening as Jenson would pull sneaky overcuts all the time! Those overcuts were a pain! He also learned more about team building too from Button imo.
Yes he was much better on the tyres in 2011, by 2012 Lewis had got a little closer in tyre management. Jenson was still faster in damp conditions be that on dry tyres or inters, Lewis was better though on full wets.
I've said it many times before, Button would have been a bigger headache for Hamilton in this hybrid era than Rosberg ever was IMO.
Correction.. In 2012 Lewis had surpassed Jenson with the Pirellis! There was a race where Jense was embarrasingly overlapped! And it was not for pace. After that Marin Whitmarsh held back development to find a setupthat could work for Button and then lack of development caused issues like unreliability. That frustration of being cast aside lead to Hamilton joining Mercedes for 2013.
Oh yes, my mistake! But my point was/is, we’re only seeing half of what the drivers are doing
This is true, but we get some gems like this: https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/
It looks like the traces are done by screen-grabbing official telemetry, so the brake traces are only on/off, but we get to compare throttle inputs. I would say that these days all the guys are quite similar. Notably, Hamilton sometimes looks smoother going off-throttle, but the differences are very minute, and how much of the differences are from the driver and how much is from the car, the setup, etc. is up to anyone's opinion.
PS Hey, anyone wants to start a petition to FOM to demand correct brake telemetry, it can be done!
Don't forget that the clips are pole laps. They are by definition where everything goes like planned with maximum grip and due to the K-unit, the best throttle response you can have. Plus we only see the steering, not what de driver does with his feet. According to legends for instance, where most drivers used their hands to look for grip on corner exit, Schumacher used his foot.
Are you not talking of Senna instead? With his throttle pump technique.
Also at the same time - pole laps are also edgier, since drivers are trying to balance the fine line between going faster and not overstepping their grip threshold
Last edited by raymondu999 on 13 Mar 2020, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
Agreed. I saw it happening as Jenson would pull sneaky overcuts all the time! Those overcuts were a pain! He also learned more about team building too from Button imo.
Yes he was much better on the tyres in 2011, by 2012 Lewis had got a little closer in tyre management. Jenson was still faster in damp conditions be that on dry tyres or inters, Lewis was better though on full wets.
I've said it many times before, Button would have been a bigger headache for Hamilton in this hybrid era than Rosberg ever was IMO.
Correction.. In 2012 Lewis had surpassed Jenson with the Pirellis! There was a race where Jense was embarrasingly overlapped! And it was not for pace. After that Marin Whitmarsh held back development to find a setupthat could work for Button and then lack of development caused issues like unreliability. That frustration of being cast aside lead to Hamilton joining Mercedes for 2013.
That was Canada IIRC. Only happened once though - Jenson just could not find a balance that weekend
Oh yes, my mistake! But my point was/is, we’re only seeing half of what the drivers are doing
This is true, but we get some gems like this: https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/
It looks like the traces are done by screen-grabbing official telemetry, so the brake traces are only on/off, but we get to compare throttle inputs. I would say that these days all the guys are quite similar. Notably, Hamilton sometimes looks smoother going off-throttle, but the differences are very minute, and how much of the differences are from the driver and how much is from the car, the setup, etc. is up to anyone's opinion.
PS Hey, anyone wants to start a petition to FOM to demand correct brake telemetry, it can be done! https://youtu.be/ehZsfG6M6MI?t=16
From what I remember the reason we never have had precise brake telemetry is that there is theoretically no cap to it. Whereas throttle goes from 0-100% torque demand.
From what I remember the reason we never have had precise brake telemetry is that there is theoretically no cap to it. Whereas throttle goes from 0-100% torque demand.
Yes, but as I said, it can be done -- it should not be perfect, even if it's capped at 70 or 80% of the travel we would see many more details and differences between drivers. There is a lot of series where braking traces are better than in F1.
Does the energy recovery system skew the issue a bit too? If the driver backs off or lightly brakes, the ERS will be doing some/all of the braking and maybe this isn't picked up by the system used to give on-screen info.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Does the energy recovery system skew the issue a bit too? If the driver backs off or lightly brakes, the ERS will be doing some/all of the braking and maybe this isn't picked up by the system used to give on-screen info.
Yes, but who cares? They have much more advanced ERS in LMP1 and still have much better brake telemetry.
Does the energy recovery system skew the issue a bit too? If the driver backs off or lightly brakes, the ERS will be doing some/all of the braking and maybe this isn't picked up by the system used to give on-screen info.
Yes, but who cares? They have much more advanced ERS in LMP1 and still have much better brake telemetry.
Who cares? You do, obviously.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Does the energy recovery system skew the issue a bit too? If the driver backs off or lightly brakes, the ERS will be doing some/all of the braking and maybe this isn't picked up by the system used to give on-screen info.
Yes, but who cares? They have much more advanced ERS in LMP1 and still have much better brake telemetry.
Does the energy recovery system skew the issue a bit too? If the driver backs off or lightly brakes, the ERS will be doing some/all of the braking and maybe this isn't picked up by the system used to give on-screen info.
Brakes in F1 graphs being on/off predate ERS.
It's either lazyness or for some reason they want to hide it (who would want that? Drivers, teams, FIA for some reason?)
Does the energy recovery system skew the issue a bit too? If the driver backs off or lightly brakes, the ERS will be doing some/all of the braking and maybe this isn't picked up by the system used to give on-screen info.
Brakes in F1 graphs being on/off predate ERS.
It's either lazyness or for some reason they want to hide it (who would want that? Drivers, teams, FIA for some reason?)
it would be fun to have the brake pressure visible, in KG/Nm, so you can see not only how hard they are braking but also taking pressure off when the downforce gets less.
