Driver styles/preferences

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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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That was a popular theory, but Senna did that on every car, turbo or not, F1 to road car.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Sevach wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:14 am
That was a popular theory, but Senna did that on every car, turbo or not, F1 to road car.
Yes. I never took note of the timings as Senna's time in F1 was before I started watching. But the video above explains as much. But still it doesnt really give any insight other than "Senna made it work but its not conventional" lol
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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It was basic, primitive traction control.
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LH44

timbo
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:40 pm
It was basic, primitive traction control.
So as any progressive throttle application.

Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:05 am
Sevach wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:14 am
That was a popular theory, but Senna did that on every car, turbo or not, F1 to road car.
Yes. I never took note of the timings as Senna's time in F1 was before I started watching. But the video above explains as much. But still it doesnt really give any insight other than "Senna made it work but its not conventional" lol
He puts it down to human TC, and it is a factor.

My personal take looking at the telemetry Palmer presented, maybe Senna actually wanted the weight at the back for the exit (the blips occur way before Palmer considers going on throttle).
Or maybe he used it to rotate the car (i'm less inclined on this one).

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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I think he had better modulation doing it like that maybe. Like how bike engine firing orders and crank throw affect traction... Maybe Senna was appliying these pulses to feel the traction.. Make and break.. Make break.. Before there is bulk slippage of the tyre.
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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Schuey this time, a lot of recycled footage from that 95 video.

Solid point imo on MS being one of the founding fathers of "fast in, fast out".

Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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A good video explaining Senna's technique, basically he thinks his blipping technique was likely an old habit that he never grew out of and couldn't see it working in today's car.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:06 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Czacauviyk

Schuey this time, a lot of recycled footage from that 95 video.

Solid point imo on MS being one of the founding fathers of "fast in, fast out".
Hamilton had a similar style at McLaren, the "V" turn, as opposed to Jenson Button who did a smoother "U" curve, and it had an effect on tyre life of course. Sharply pivoting the car at the apex was quick, but put a lot of energy in a short time.
After the Pirellies got every cheesier, everyone had to driver the car a certain way and the differences in styles between drivers really blurred.
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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:29 pm
Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:06 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Czacauviyk

Schuey this time, a lot of recycled footage from that 95 video.

Solid point imo on MS being one of the founding fathers of "fast in, fast out".
Hamilton had a similar style at McLaren, the "V" turn, as opposed to Jenson Button who did a smoother "U" curve, and it had an effect on tyre life of course. Sharply pivoting the car at the apex was quick, but put a lot of energy in a short time.
After the Pirellies got every cheesier, everyone had to driver the car a certain way and the differences in styles between drivers really blurred.
Yes, but even during HAMs time vs BUT at McLaren HAM got better longevity out of the tires on 2010 Bridgestones or 2011-12 pirellis. Everyone thought that HAM would suffer with high deg tires, he didn'(except for maybe 2013). Everyone thought that HAM would suffer with fuel saving, but in 14 and 15(when they showed fuel usage) HAM DOMINATED ROS while using less fuel (and being better on tires). The kid is just amazing, WHAT IS HIS SECRET? Or maybe his secret is just extreme adaptability.

We know he is amazing on the brakes, does he always carry more apex speed? Does he accelerate out of corners better? So many things FOM could show us but we get none of it. 13 years of HAM magic, concurrent with the age of information, and we still have almost no idea how he does it.

Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:08 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:29 pm
Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:06 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Czacauviyk

Schuey this time, a lot of recycled footage from that 95 video.

Solid point imo on MS being one of the founding fathers of "fast in, fast out".
Hamilton had a similar style at McLaren, the "V" turn, as opposed to Jenson Button who did a smoother "U" curve, and it had an effect on tyre life of course. Sharply pivoting the car at the apex was quick, but put a lot of energy in a short time.
After the Pirellies got every cheesier, everyone had to driver the car a certain way and the differences in styles between drivers really blurred.
Yes, but even during HAMs time vs BUT at McLaren HAM got better longevity out of the tires on 2010 Bridgestones or 2011-12 pirellis. Everyone thought that HAM would suffer with high deg tires, he didn'(except for maybe 2013). Everyone thought that HAM would suffer with fuel saving, but in 14 and 15(when they showed fuel usage) HAM DOMINATED ROS while using less fuel (and being better on tires). The kid is just amazing, WHAT IS HIS SECRET? Or maybe his secret is just extreme adaptability.

We know he is amazing on the brakes, does he always carry more apex speed? Does he accelerate out of corners better? So many things FOM could show us but we get none of it. 13 years of HAM magic, concurrent with the age of information, and we still have almost no idea how he does it.
Hamilton definitely struggled more than Button with the tyres in 2011 for the most part. Saying that I don't think the QC of Pirelli was good that year.

Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Can you remember that great bit of data they used to show with computer footage of cars a couple of years back?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:08 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:29 pm
Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:06 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Czacauviyk

Schuey this time, a lot of recycled footage from that 95 video.

Solid point imo on MS being one of the founding fathers of "fast in, fast out".
Hamilton had a similar style at McLaren, the "V" turn, as opposed to Jenson Button who did a smoother "U" curve, and it had an effect on tyre life of course. Sharply pivoting the car at the apex was quick, but put a lot of energy in a short time.
After the Pirellies got every cheesier, everyone had to driver the car a certain way and the differences in styles between drivers really blurred.
Yes, but even during HAMs time vs BUT at McLaren HAM got better longevity out of the tires on 2010 Bridgestones or 2011-12 pirellis. Everyone thought that HAM would suffer with high deg tires, he didn'(except for maybe 2013). Everyone thought that HAM would suffer with fuel saving, but in 14 and 15(when they showed fuel usage) HAM DOMINATED ROS while using less fuel (and being better on tires). The kid is just amazing, WHAT IS HIS SECRET? Or maybe his secret is just extreme adaptability.

We know he is amazing on the brakes, does he always carry more apex speed? Does he accelerate out of corners better? So many things FOM could show us but we get none of it. 13 years of HAM magic, concurrent with the age of information, and we still have almost no idea how he does it.
He's exceptional in the brake zones versus his opponents, very noticeable in his early years of F1. Afterward, I feel there were cars, particularly the RedBulls who always seemed stronger on the brakes, and sometimes other drivers also attempt to, and do successfully manage to brake later than Lewis, but after a while they realise that braking distance alone is not why Hamilton is so fast... It his feel for grip through the entire corner. You just cant beat the guy using a few tricks alone! You need to be strong in all aspects! Quite a formidable driver, Lewis Hamilton.

Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Speaking of MS being similar to LH, the video comparison of him and Herbert suggests that isn't the case. If I remember correctly Herbert was later on the brakes than Schumacher but was having a bigger lift whereas Schumacher lifted earlier but carried much more speed through the corner.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:56 pm
Hamilton definitely struggled more than Button with the tyres in 2011 for the most part. Saying that I don't think the QC of Pirelli was good that year.
Nonsense, Hamilton was clearly faster/better in 2011, but a combination of poor strategy, poor pit stops, getting hit by Button in canada, gearbox in brazil, and a couple small mistakes like in Spa allowed Button to score more points. Button didn't outdrive HAM, merely outscored him.