Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Doesnt matter. We know that Hamilton amd Alonso have two very different driving styles, but they are the two most adaptable drivers on the grid. Naturally both of them drive the same car, the setups and the way to drive that car will be midway between what those two drivers prefer.
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Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:31 am
Doesnt matter. We know that Hamilton amd Alonso have two very different driving styles, but they are the two most adaptable drivers on the grid. Naturally both of them drive the same car, the setups and the way to drive that car will be midway between what those two drivers prefer.
What doesn't matter?

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Q2 was always the balls-out flat-out session back then. Low fuel, new tyres... etc.
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Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 am
Q2 was always the balls-out flat-out session back then. Low fuel, new tyres... etc.
Yes I remember that and I believe Alonso beat Hamilton in Q2 that season.

God knows where the rubbish that he's not the fastest in qualifying comes from?

Just_a_fan
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:58 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 am
Q2 was always the balls-out flat-out session back then. Low fuel, new tyres... etc.
Yes I remember that and I believe Alonso beat Hamilton in Q2 that season.

God knows where the rubbish that he's not the fastest in qualifying comes from?
Can we remember who was the rookie that season? :wink:
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Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:36 am
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:58 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 am
Q2 was always the balls-out flat-out session back then. Low fuel, new tyres... etc.
Yes I remember that and I believe Alonso beat Hamilton in Q2 that season.

God knows where the rubbish that he's not the fastest in qualifying comes from?
Can we remember who was the rookie that season? :wink:
Oh yes certainly but you just can't say Hamilton won the qualifying battle when in fact Alonso did.

It's debatable whether Hamilton would have got faster over one lap with more experience.

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Alonso beat him by the smallest of margins though but stretched that advantage on race day.

It would have been fascinating to see how it would have turned out in the end had they continued to be teammates.

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:49 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:36 am
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:58 am


Yes I remember that and I believe Alonso beat Hamilton in Q2 that season.

God knows where the rubbish that he's not the fastest in qualifying comes from?
Can we remember who was the rookie that season? :wink:
Oh yes certainly but you just can't say Hamilton won the qualifying battle when in fact Alonso did.

It's debatable whether Hamilton would have got faster over one lap with more experience.
Well, "the qualifying battle" isn't just who did better in Q2 is it? It's about the positions on the grid at the start of the race too. And in that regard, Hamilton did beat Alonso.

As for not getting faster with experience - really? You think that what a driver brings in on day one of his F1 career is all he'll ever have? Wow.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:05 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:49 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:36 am

Can we remember who was the rookie that season? :wink:
Oh yes certainly but you just can't say Hamilton won the qualifying battle when in fact Alonso did.

It's debatable whether Hamilton would have got faster over one lap with more experience.
Well, "the qualifying battle" isn't just who did better in Q2 is it? It's about the positions on the grid at the start of the race too. And in that regard, Hamilton did beat Alonso.

As for not getting faster with experience - really? You think that what a driver brings in on day one of his F1 career is all he'll ever have? Wow.
You know as well as I do that I you're running heavier than your teammate chances are you will be outqualified. Of course mistakes and such can make a difference but the whole point of going for it in Q2 is so you have the optimum strategy in the race.

That I'm not sure sure, I mean he will have had plenty of experience in the car by time they started racing and let's not forget Alonso was with a new time too and had was used to the Michelin tyres at Renault.

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:39 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:05 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:49 am


Oh yes certainly but you just can't say Hamilton won the qualifying battle when in fact Alonso did.

It's debatable whether Hamilton would have got faster over one lap with more experience.
Well, "the qualifying battle" isn't just who did better in Q2 is it? It's about the positions on the grid at the start of the race too. And in that regard, Hamilton did beat Alonso.

As for not getting faster with experience - really? You think that what a driver brings in on day one of his F1 career is all he'll ever have? Wow.
You know as well as I do that I you're running heavier than your teammate chances are you will be outqualified. Of course mistakes and such can make a difference but the whole point of going for it in Q2 is so you have the optimum strategy in the race.

That I'm not sure sure, I mean he will have had plenty of experience in the car by time they started racing and let's not forget Alonso was with a new time too and had was used to the Michelin tyres at Renault.
So Hamilton gained experience from testing but Alonso didn't? Come on, you can do better than that.

So Alonso chose, and the team (that supposedly hated him) let him follow, the quickest race strategy? Fair enough if that's the case. Seems strange that the team that hated him so much allowed him to do such a thing...
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:29 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:39 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:05 pm

Well, "the qualifying battle" isn't just who did better in Q2 is it? It's about the positions on the grid at the start of the race too. And in that regard, Hamilton did beat Alonso.

As for not getting faster with experience - really? You think that what a driver brings in on day one of his F1 career is all he'll ever have? Wow.
You know as well as I do that I you're running heavier than your teammate chances are you will be outqualified. Of course mistakes and such can make a difference but the whole point of going for it in Q2 is so you have the optimum strategy in the race.

That I'm not sure sure, I mean he will have had plenty of experience in the car by time they started racing and let's not forget Alonso was with a new time too and had was used to the Michelin tyres at Renault.
So Hamilton gained experience from testing but Alonso didn't? Come on, you can do better than that.

So Alonso chose, and the team (that supposedly hated him) let him follow, the quickest race strategy? Fair enough if that's the case. Seems strange that the team that hated him so much allowed him to do such a thing...
Stop putting words in to my mouth.

I never said that Alonso wouldn't have gained experience with the car. What I'm trying to say is they just about started on a level playing field.

Back then was nothing like today, rookies did a --- load of testing in preparation.

You either have the speed or you don't IMO, I doubt he gained much if any speed at all in the years to come over one lap.

No, Alonso earned the quickest strategy by being fastest in Q2.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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It was then, when Schumacher tested both a V10 mule car and V12 Ferrari 412 T2, that Bernard understood his driving style, as the German preferred the V12, which had more engine braking – a feature which Gerhard Berger and Jean Alesi disliked as it would unsettle the car during off-throttle periods.

“I tried to speak to Michael and put across my viewpoint,” explained Bernard. “'For me, the way the car is quick is if you can plant the back end, if I can give you maximum traction at the back at all times, you can open the throttle sooner and you will be quicker.”
“Now, Michael didn't didn't drive like that. Michael drove what I call 'off the front of the car'. He wanted a front end [where he could] absolutely just turn the wheel and bang, into the corner and he would kind of look after the back.

“All the other guys said: 'we don't like that, because when we do that the back end comes out'.”
Source - https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hAmS2.html
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Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:03 pm
IIRC they were only ever 1lap apart on Q3 fuel weights. Could be wrong. To my memory, whoever was faster in Q2 got the extra lap of fuel in Q3?

Also dont forget differing setups. Just because they had the same car wouldnt mean same setups.
I watched the 2007 Chinese GP yesterday. Alonso was at least 3 laps heavier than Hamilton, I did read he was 4 laps heavier.

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:09 am

“Now, Michael didn't didn't drive like that. Michael drove what I call 'off the front of the car'. He wanted a front end [where he could] absolutely just turn the wheel and bang, into the corner and he would kind of look after the back.
And so was born the idea that Schumacher wanted an oversteering car. He didn't want it to oversteer, it's just that he was comfortable looking after the back end so long as the front went where he wanted it to. I remember an interview with Irvine where he was trying to get the team to give him more front end. They kept trying to stop him because it would be more than Michael had and everyone thought that he liked lots of oversteer so Irvine's car would be undriveable. But Irvine wanted a really responsive front end, hated understeer with a passion.

Kimi is similar - hates understeer and is confident enough in his ability to control the rear so long as the front goes where he wants, just like Michael. Hamilton is happy looking after the rear too, especially in his early days where he seemed to back the car in to corners under braking. Button hated the rear to be anything other than planted. Vettel is like Button, it seems. Likes the rear to stay in place especially under braking in to the corner. But he then wants the car to pivot in the corner so he can get the power on early. This was why he loved the blown diffuser - it suited his style exactly: as soon as the car was turned, he could stamp on the throttle and the downforce would jump at the rear giving him traction. Webber was much more traditional and that played against him with the blown diffuser.

I think the difference in preferred car behaviour in to the corners is why Kimi struggled at Ferrari with Seb. The need to look after the rear tyres, along with Seb's preference for an inherently stable rear meant that Kimi was always dealing with a car that didn't turn in fast enough for him. We often heard him complaining about understeer. We've heard Ferrari saying that Seb hasn't been happy with the car's stability last year and how they were working to improve it for him. Charles, on the other hand, was enjoying the car which suggests that he is happier to deal with the rear so long as the front obeys.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Sometimes I think we try and over complicate things.

I bet a drivers style is governed by the car he's driving and with the setup he runs.

That's why Hamilton doesn't drive the Mercedes car like he did the early McLaren cars he drove.