Driver styles/preferences

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Just_a_fan
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:35 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:33 am
The 2009 McLaren had weak downforce as they had followed the rules where others had been "creative". That's McLaren's problem, of course, and might have been caused by them fighting the whole season to win the title in 2008.
It wasn't just the double diffuser, McLaren had the wrong front wing concept for 2009 as well. The car was trash aerodynamically, but the strong KERS system helped them alot.
Indeed so. When I said it had weak downforce, I meant "everywhere" not just int terms of the diffuser. The front wing was way too simple and they took too long to catch on to the outwash concept that was what made the Brawn the race winner it was initially - the double diffuser wasn't the golden bullet, it was the front wing. The launch car even had a little bit of inwash in the front wing endplates.
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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Dont forget they misjudged the weight distribution too
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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:03 pm
Dont forget they misjudged the weight distribution too
Wasn't that set by the regulations, or did that come into effect in 2014?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Schumacher did not like the handling of the post 2009 cars. Perhaps age was not a big factor as one would think? He adapted to the heavy front after a while tho.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/michael-s ... -1-return/

The 2006 Brazilian Grand Prix was thought to be Schumacher’s last race for Ferrari and in Formula 1 itself, but he returned to action in 2010 with Mercedes and spent three seasons with the team which saw him finish P9, P8 and P13 in the respective World Championship standings.

Legendary car designer, John Barnard, who had previously worked with Schumacher at Ferrari, stated that it was Nico Rosberg who preferred a car that had a stable rear, while Schumacher wanted a lighter rear end to force the car to oversteer and then hit the acceleration pedal again.

When asked for a response to Barnard’s thinking, Weber was in complete agreement and what leads him to think why Schumacher failed at Mercedes.

“I see it 100 percent the same way,” Weber told Kolner Express newspaper.

“Michael had this special car setup for his style and didn’t get it from the Mercedes.

“The newer cars had developed in a different direction, and Michael couldn’t influence the technology as much as he could at Benetton and Ferrari.

“That is true, but after Ross [Brawn] could not improve the car much after 2009 and Rosberg was suddenly the faster one, Michael couldn’t compensate for that. It was a different technology and driver generation, even though Michael was as fit as ever.
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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:05 pm
Schumacher did not like the handling of the post 2009 cars.
He hated the pirelli garbage and was extremely vocal about it, good on him.

Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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2010 it was still Bridgestones and that was probably his weakest.
2011 it was a weird year, if remember correctly he always qualified much further back than Nico but they often converged in the race, it would interesting to know what kind of diffeences in setup those 2 were running.
2012 it seemed like he was getting there at last, though still with plenty of mistakes, like the Barcelona one that denied him his pole at Monaco.

Ultimately the opportunity to go for peak Hamilton was too good to pass up.

I do wonder if Barnard is still holding some grudge...

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:02 pm
raymondu999 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:03 pm
Dont forget they misjudged the weight distribution too
Wasn't that set by the regulations, or did that come into effect in 2014?
Set WD came a few years after Pirelli did. McLaren misjudged the WD in 2009
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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:05 pm
Schumacher did not like the handling of the post 2009 cars. Perhaps age was not a big factor as one would think? He adapted to the heavy front after a while tho.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/michael-s ... -1-return/

The 2006 Brazilian Grand Prix was thought to be Schumacher’s last race for Ferrari and in Formula 1 itself, but he returned to action in 2010 with Mercedes and spent three seasons with the team which saw him finish P9, P8 and P13 in the respective World Championship standings.

Legendary car designer, John Barnard, who had previously worked with Schumacher at Ferrari, stated that it was Nico Rosberg who preferred a car that had a stable rear, while Schumacher wanted a lighter rear end to force the car to oversteer and then hit the acceleration pedal again.

When asked for a response to Barnard’s thinking, Weber was in complete agreement and what leads him to think why Schumacher failed at Mercedes.

“I see it 100 percent the same way,” Weber told Kolner Express newspaper.

“Michael had this special car setup for his style and didn’t get it from the Mercedes.

“The newer cars had developed in a different direction, and Michael couldn’t influence the technology as much as he could at Benetton and Ferrari.

“That is true, but after Ross [Brawn] could not improve the car much after 2009 and Rosberg was suddenly the faster one, Michael couldn’t compensate for that. It was a different technology and driver generation, even though Michael was as fit as ever.
I dont think he adapted to it. Remember the 2010 car that they adjusted the front wishbones to make a more rearward WD?
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Jolle
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:22 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:02 pm
raymondu999 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:03 pm
Dont forget they misjudged the weight distribution too
Wasn't that set by the regulations, or did that come into effect in 2014?
Set WD came a few years after Pirelli did. McLaren misjudged the WD in 2009
McLaren misjudged a lot for 2009. They turned up for the first test with a 2008 rear wing...

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:25 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:22 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:02 pm


Wasn't that set by the regulations, or did that come into effect in 2014?
Set WD came a few years after Pirelli did. McLaren misjudged the WD in 2009
McLaren misjudged a lot for 2009. They turned up for the first test with a 2008 rear wing...
Wasn’t that a correlation check? Like an A-B test to see the difference? I seem to recall it being something like that... and wasnt it wet some of the test days?
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Jolle
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:34 am
Jolle wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:25 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:22 am

Set WD came a few years after Pirelli did. McLaren misjudged the WD in 2009
McLaren misjudged a lot for 2009. They turned up for the first test with a 2008 rear wing...
Wasn’t that a correlation check? Like an A-B test to see the difference? I seem to recall it being something like that... and wasnt it wet some of the test days?
nope, car was just undriveble and spun out on several occasions. Most teams missed the DD and outwash FW, McLaren just missed the whole back end of the car. That Hamilton and McLaren somehow won races that year, is a miracle.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Part of missing the rear end had to be because of the inwash fw though.
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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:39 am

nope, car was just undriveble and spun out on several occasions. Most teams missed the DD and outwash FW, McLaren just missed the whole back end of the car. That Hamilton and McLaren somehow won races that year, is a miracle.
Most teams had what Mercedes and Red Bull had last year, a full length FW with endplates designed to push air out.
Brawn already had shorter endplates with the wing shaped to spill to the sides from day one.

Mclaren had (for half a season) a full length FW with straight or slightly inwards endplate which was just nonsensical even then.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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The lack of an outwash front wing caused the rear to lose downforce, hence they tested with a previous season "big wing".
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:37 pm
The lack of an outwash front wing caused the rear to lose downforce, hence they tested with a previous season "big wing".
yeah thats what i meant
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