Driver styles/preferences

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Yeah. the 2009 McLaren, aka the Silver Donkey, was known for its ridiculous front end grip.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Interesting view from Heikki about his time against Hamilton and why Hamilton is quick and his handling of tyres.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... YkPHKuAxMc

Also, this could have been written by Rosberg, it's very similar to Rosberg's experience:
Ultimately Kovalainen's pace dropped off towards the end of his time with McLaren and he left the team after two years at the end of 2009. And he says racing alongside such a formidable team mate as Hamilton took its toll on him.

“I felt both years there it was hard for me. He was just that tiny bit faster all the time and I had to stretch every session.

"It was straight from the winter test, I always had to stretch to match him or be ahead of him. An average lap wasn’t good enough. And when you’ve done that for a year and a half, I kind of ran out of energy, and the second half of the second year, 2009 at McLaren, it’s fair to say that I drove below my own ability even."
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Found this nice vid. One striking thing is that Gasly is fighting a lot of mid-corner snaps, or a lot of perceived mid-corner snaps. I think he's turning in, it's turning in well (a la red bull) and he maybe doesnt seem prepared for it to turn so well? Almost as if (uh oh, its turning this well, I've obviously lost the rear) then he tries correcting?

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Just_a_fan
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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It's mostly in the first 2 or 3 corners which makes me wonder if Max has just done a better job of preparing the tyres for the lap. But then if one looks at it frame by frame, there is a subtle difference in line. Gasly appears to be trying to force the car to the traditional clipping apex where Max is content to take a slightly different line allowing slightly earlier power or rather a slightly smoother application of power. Later in the lap, there's less sawing of the wheel by Gasly suggesting the rears have caught up and are at temperature. Max is still quicker through the slower stuff but now the lines are similar so he's probably just more comfortable where Gasly is worrying about the rear end still.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Thoughts?
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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Vettel smoother in how he transitions right to left through the esses, Leclerc quicker steering movements and "bullying" the car mid corner.
Leclerc also often hits the curbs (inside curbs) where Vettel gives it a miss.

I think this is a good showing of their styles, and i think a track that is more about heavy braking into slow corners might push the balance more towards Leclerc while here it was a Vettel win.

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:12 am
It's mostly in the first 2 or 3 corners which makes me wonder if Max has just done a better job of preparing the tyres for the lap. But then if one looks at it frame by frame, there is a subtle difference in line. Gasly appears to be trying to force the car to the traditional clipping apex where Max is content to take a slightly different line allowing slightly earlier power or rather a slightly smoother application of power. Later in the lap, there's less sawing of the wheel by Gasly suggesting the rears have caught up and are at temperature. Max is still quicker through the slower stuff but now the lines are similar so he's probably just more comfortable where Gasly is worrying about the rear end still.
I think Gasly just lost his confidence after T2(where he is very aggressive in braking/turn in).
The car is now stable, yes, but to me he's visibly carrying less speed than Max everywhere so of course it's gonna be stable.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Sevach wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:45 pm
Vettel smoother in how he transitions right to left through the esses, Leclerc quicker steering movements and "bullying" the car mid corner.
Yeah agree. Other than Seb being smoother inputs and Leclerc having corrective steering sometimes I cant see much difference between the 2 on this particular lap.
I think this is a good showing of their styles, and i think a track that is more about heavy braking into slow corners might push the balance more towards Leclerc while here it was a Vettel win.
Well you're in luck.

I think Vettel is stronger on entries. You can see in the mini map that his gains are all in the braking zones, but Charles treats them better overall I think by doing the slow in fast out thing more as he rotates the car more mid corner then has a straighter exit. T5/6 fast chicane also really stands out - look how calm Vettel's lap is but how much more corrective Leclerc is.
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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Leclerc is more active, quicker steering movements, Vettel has a very gradual loading up.
Vettel goes for the long round corner, clear example in T4, when he understeers he has no answer just eats the loss, big time on T7 i think and also on the second to last corner.
When Leclerc (seemingly) overshoots the downhill 8/9 he still manages to get it turned.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Sevach wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:34 pm
Leclerc is more active, quicker steering movements, Vettel has a very gradual loading up.
Yes that's what I mean. If ever there was an "aggressive vs smooth" comparison I think this teammate comparison sums it up most.
Vettel goes for the long round corner, clear example in T4, when he understeers he has no answer just eats the loss, big time on T7 i think and also on the second to last corner.
When Leclerc (seemingly) overshoots the downhill 8/9 he still manages to get it turned.
Downhill hairpin is 8, I think u mean that? Before the uphill climb into the blended-braking 9/10 complex.
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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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When i'm talking about Vettel understeering i'm pointing at the slow corner after the fast-ish S, Leclerc about the downhill breaking leading to the DRS straight.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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You lost me. The right-turn hairpin?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Yes. Vettel understeers a bit more into turn 4 costing him in the following turns. And then he understeers again at the hairpin. Maybe cold tyres?
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Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:38 pm
You lost me. The right-turn hairpin?
S1 ends right before the "S", following the "S" there's a slow corner where Vettel fails to connect with the apex by a mile and understeers wide missing a good chunk of time.

Immediately following that corner we have the double corner with downhill braking where Leclerc maybe brakes too late and struggles to turn and has to fight the car.

My point when comparing these 2 moments, Vettel is more "exposed" in these slow corners, he misses the apex, the car doesn't rotate nowhere near as much as he wanted and that's it he doesn't have it in is his arsenal to wrestle it back, he has to wait.
Leclerc goes in too hot for the downhill double corner (and he loses some time to be sure), but in his "brutish" style he fights the car still manages to get it turned reasonably and doesn't lose as much time.
Yes. Vettel understeers a bit more into turn 4 costing him in the following turns. And then he understeers again at the hairpin. Maybe cold tyres?
Any situation where a car doesn't have good front warm up would play into Leclerc's hands, his more aggressive steering movements will certainly help in comparison to Vettel's slow loading up into a corner.

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raymondu999
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

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Sevach wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:04 am
S1 ends right before the "S", following the "S" there's a slow corner where Vettel fails to connect with the apex by a mile and understeers wide missing a good chunk of time.
Yes T8. I dont think that's quite US though, that looks just like he missed his braking a bit and overshot.
Immediately following that corner we have the double corner with downhill braking where Leclerc maybe brakes too late and struggles to turn and has to fight the car.
Yes, 9-10. What's more striking is the line in the kink before that, imo. Leclerc is very close to the inside kerb and Vettel is clearly ignoring it somewhat.
My point when comparing these 2 moments, Vettel is more "exposed" in these slow corners, he misses the apex, the car doesn't rotate nowhere near as much as he wanted and that's it he doesn't have it in is his arsenal to wrestle it back, he has to wait.
Agreed. Kimi has often said this is an issue with him too.

Leclerc goes in too hot for the downhill double corner (and he loses some time to be sure), but in his "brutish" style he fights the car still manages to get it turned reasonably and doesn't lose as much time.
Any situation where a car doesn't have good front warm up would play into Leclerc's hands, his more aggressive steering movements will certainly help in comparison to Vettel's slow loading up into a corner.
But - while Vettel will have lower "energy peaks" they will be on for a longer duration. Somewhere in between, the "area under the curve" will be higher for Vettel
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