Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[Brake Horse Power]

Henry, what is this centralised system about? Is it instead of having engine ECU, brake ECU, airco ECU, everything integrated in one large ECU?

[henry]

Henry, what is this centralised system about? Is it instead of having engine ECU, brake ECU, airco ECU, everything integrated in one large ECU?

That, and wiper controllers and seat controllers and mirror controllers, everything that is usually provided by sub contractors as packaged hardware and logic/software controllers . It’s why Tesla can send over the wire updates so you can adjust the interior comfort for your dog or flash brake lights in jurisdictions that allow it or modify the battery control to increase range.

Over the years the big manufacturers have become system designers and assemblers. They specify componentry and then get suppliers to do the detailed design and manufacturer of systems for the car including hardware, controllers and software. Tesla opted not to do this but instead take control of all the subsystems. It makes them more agile and less reliant on the big assembly makers.

[kimetic]

I think it’s because they are trying to follow Tesla’s model with a centralised system rather distributed. One body of code to operate everything. It’s one of the things that sets Tesla apart and it's not proving easy to replicate.

All the news items I've seen seem to be based on the same insider quote:

The ID.3 not only comes with a new drive module, the MEB but also with entirely new software architecture, including the operating system. With the new vehicle IT, VW wanted to reduce the complexity in the car itself with its many control units. At the end of February, VW insiders told German media that the basic architecture of the software had been developed “too hastily”, with the result that many parts of the system did not cooperate efficiently, leading to dropouts.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ ... eport-says

Meanwhile Tesla are so far ahead they're amusing themselves making their car a gaming console as well.

[kimetic]

That, and wiper controllers and seat controllers and mirror controllers, everything that is usually provided by sub contractors as packaged hardware and logic/software controllers . It’s why Tesla can send over the wire updates so you can adjust the interior comfort for your dog or flash brake lights in jurisdictions that allow it or modify the battery control to increase range.

Over the years the big manufacturers have become system designers and assemblers. They specify componentry and then get suppliers to do the detailed design and manufacturer of systems for the car including hardware, controllers and software. Tesla opted not to do this but instead take control of all the subsystems. It makes them more agile and less reliant on the big assembly makers.

Good explanation, thanks. Makes sense with what I've read over time. Makes the Tesla story all the more remarkable.

[Brake Horse Power]

Thanks Henry. So basically what they do is what a lot of (large) machinebuilders are doing?

You have one CPU, with an ethernet or profibus network (CAN in automotive) and you have some remote IO stations for clustered components, such as switches, sensors etc? The remote IO stations just only convert analog or digital signals into a communication protocol and send it to the ICU.

Is that it?

So if I understand correctly now Tesla can for example connect the lef fwd light, brake signals and suspensions signal to a single remote IO unit, as where this used to be done by individual controllers. Also this Rio unit is fairly dumb, it only sends signals to a main CPU as where previously all these individual controllers had their own firmware.

[3jawchuck]

Henry, what is this centralised system about? Is it instead of having engine ECU, brake ECU, airco ECU, everything integrated in one large ECU?

Nearly every modern car has multiple modules communicating on a network (CAN). I believe I read this in a VAG-SS paper that (could be remembering wrong) this was introduced to save on weight and cable runs. Achieved by having the modules near to where they communicate with and only needing the network cabling between the modules scattered around the vehicle. This also makes these systems easier to diagnose and to replace cable and parts if need requires.

Unfortunately now every module is differently programmed using different protocols and there is no central way to program everything.

[Brake Horse Power]

Newest solar project. $0,0161 for a kWh.

That makes you go 100km in a Tesla for 30 cents. Seems pretty viable to me.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/04/03/ ... ign=buffer

[Big Tea]

Newest solar project. $0,0161 for a kWh.

That makes you go 100km in a Tesla for 30 cents. Seems pretty viable to me.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/04/03/ ... ign=buffer

But only if you don't have to lay a big long cable from Saudi Arabia to your own country's electricity grid. Presumably the project is for domestic consumption.

...

There is a vid here that claims it would only need 1% of Sahara covered to supply the whole world

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS3bBO05fpU)

Well...I say 'only' in relative terms

[Brake Horse Power]

Newest solar project. $0,0161 for a kWh.

That makes you go 100km in a Tesla for 30 cents. Seems pretty viable to me.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/04/03/ ... ign=buffer

But only if you don't have to lay a big long cable from Saudi Arabia to your own country's electricity grid. Presumably the project is for domestic consumption.

...

Well there are different ways to transport electrons. Good news is, there are more sunny countries on earth than just Saudi. But is shows what is possible nowadays

[Just_a_fan]

Newest solar project. $0,0161 for a kWh.

That makes you go 100km in a Tesla for 30 cents. Seems pretty viable to me.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/04/03/ ... ign=buffer

But only if you don't have to lay a big long cable from Saudi Arabia to your own country's electricity grid. Presumably the project is for domestic consumption.

...

Well there are different ways to transport electrons. Good news is, there are more sunny countries on earth than just Saudi. But is shows what is possible nowadays

Oh, indeed it does show possibilities.

I think the thing with renewables is that a full and decent mix is required. PV where there is good sun, wind and wave where they are plentiful. Tidal can be done in a huge number of places although tidal ranges vary massively around the world.

Going to make a suggestion that will annoy neoliberal capitalists: how about a worldwide renewable energy generation and supply system, independent of commercial and governmental considerations? Sunny places doing PV, windy places doing turbines, etc. Each country dumps in some money to fund it and all get to use it as they wish.

Of course the likes of OPEC, USA and Russia etc., may be annoyed, but they can still be involved in the new scheme as each has renewable resources available.

A total pipe dream, of course, but it's good to dream.

[Big Tea]

But only if you don't have to lay a big long cable from Saudi Arabia to your own country's electricity grid. Presumably the project is for domestic consumption.

...

Well there are different ways to transport electrons. Good news is, there are more sunny countries on earth than just Saudi. But is shows what is possible nowadays

Oh, indeed it does show possibilities.

I think the thing with renewables is that a full and decent mix is required. PV where there is good sun, wind and wave where they are plentiful. Tidal can be done in a huge number of places although tidal ranges vary massively around the world.

Going to make a suggestion that will annoy neoliberal capitalists: how about a worldwide renewable energy generation and supply system, independent of commercial and governmental considerations? Sunny places doing PV, windy places doing turbines, etc. Each country dumps in some money to fund it and all get to use it as they wish.

Of course the likes of OPEC, USA and Russia etc., may be annoyed, but they can still be involved in the new scheme as each has renewable resources available.

A total pipe dream, of course, but it's good to dream.

Can not see that being allowed, they would be more powerful than any country or even combination of countries.

Reading of a 'pipe dream' recently where solar panels are light enough to be floated on a hydrogen filled raft above clouds with the energy beamed to a ground station

[Just_a_fan]

Well there are different ways to transport electrons. Good news is, there are more sunny countries on earth than just Saudi. But is shows what is possible nowadays

Oh, indeed it does show possibilities.

I think the thing with renewables is that a full and decent mix is required. PV where there is good sun, wind and wave where they are plentiful. Tidal can be done in a huge number of places although tidal ranges vary massively around the world.

Going to make a suggestion that will annoy neoliberal capitalists: how about a worldwide renewable energy generation and supply system, independent of commercial and governmental considerations? Sunny places doing PV, windy places doing turbines, etc. Each country dumps in some money to fund it and all get to use it as they wish.

Of course the likes of OPEC, USA and Russia etc., may be annoyed, but they can still be involved in the new scheme as each has renewable resources available.

A total pipe dream, of course, but it's good to dream.

Can not see that being allowed, they would be more powerful than any country or even combination of countries

It would have to be someone like the UN running it - so everyone is involved in oversight etc. But bare in mind that it would be receiving energy from lots of sources so no one country would be able to hold it to ransom, unlike the current oil dispute between Saudi Arabia and Russia.

[nzjrs]

I think the thing with renewables is that a full and decent mix is required. PV where there is good sun, wind and wave where they are plentiful. Tidal can be done in a huge number of places although tidal ranges vary massively around the world.

I still hold out hope (and believe it is inevitable) that Nuclear will return to favour again.

[subcritical71]

I think the thing with renewables is that a full and decent mix is required. PV where there is good sun, wind and wave where they are plentiful. Tidal can be done in a huge number of places although tidal ranges vary massively around the world.

I still hold out hope (and believe it is inevitable) that Nuclear will return to favour again.

You and I both!

[Zynerji]

I think the thing with renewables is that a full and decent mix is required. PV where there is good sun, wind and wave where they are plentiful. Tidal can be done in a huge number of places although tidal ranges vary massively around the world.

I still hold out hope (and believe it is inevitable) that Nuclear will return to favour again.

You and I both!

Where is the LFTR work at currently? I always felt if there was a shinkable, non-weaponizable, distributable nuclear reactor, it would be this type. Shrink it to the size of an 80gal water heater, and install them in the home.

The service contracts for fuel cycling would be the only expense.