VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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RacingManiac
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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Inherit layout of the Quattro(traditional, longitudinal engine "Quattro", not the TT/A3 style Haldex system) has to have the engine situated entirely in front of the front axle, resulting in pretty skewed weight distribution and more readily overwhelms the front tires. Though in recent years with them lengthening wheel base and have the front axle moving forward with a more swept forward control arms, and more rearward biased torque-split, with ability to verctor rear wheel torque, I think they have been slowly addressing the issue.

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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Marcush touched on the point that people buying cars now really don't give a monkeys what's under the hood. It's just gotta have something "blingy" , trendy or upmarket about it and CHA CHING!
-The market always follows the; USP & marketing & the fashion. So if we go into another market, headphones. The trend is Dr.Dre´s Beats. It looks fantastic but it isn´t the best. I bought them because they were trendy and everybody i know wants to test them and touch them etc... you know what i mean(?).But I know the beats aren´t the best on the market but their marketing for the product was fantastic. It´s a "wannabe" hit.

But the same story is with cars. In sweden for example, a "second hand", almost new SAAB is only worth $10´000 but a BMW (the same year as the saab and haves the same market segment as the Saab) is sold for more than $23´000 secondhand.
What i´m trying to say is not everybody knows what to buy because the market is so big!
Look at Audi. They sell in china both Long wheelbast (L) and normal: A2L=A4
A4L=A6
A6L=A8
A8L
In total they sell the same cars but in 7 different forms to confuse the customers :mrgreen:
Last edited by mx_tifoso on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: fixed quote so post could makes sense
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ds.raikkonen
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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allstaruk08 wrote:i think its something to do with the engine position so far forward, i read it somewhere but cant remember where.
RacingManiac wrote:Inherit layout of the Quattro(traditional, longitudinal engine "Quattro", not the TT/A3 style Haldex system) has to have the engine situated entirely in front of the front axle, resulting in pretty skewed weight distribution and more readily overwhelms the front tires. Though in recent years with them lengthening wheel base and have the front axle moving forward with a more swept forward control arms, and more rearward biased torque-split, with ability to verctor rear wheel torque, I think they have been slowly addressing the issue.
Yeah, I know that the RS4 and RS6 had the engine hanging in front of the front axle, which made them front heavy, like tractors :mrgreen: BUT, why on Earth did they do that, when they knew it would make them understeery and nobody likes it?!! Did nt they have track days or perhaps enthusiastic drivers in mind? Even after lengthening the wheelbase, as in the S5, they still have nt made much progress, it still understeers. The new M3 eats it for breakfast. The old ones had the Torsen center differential right?
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary...that’s what gets you.” - JC

Tommy Cookers
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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The engine is where DKW put in 1928 or so ?

That was a 2 cyl 2 stroke , then a 3cyl 2 stroke (front wheel drive)

The rest was history, bigger engines forced 4 wd via rallying

The whole modern Audi thing was the last ever(would-be) DKW V6 2 stroke re-engined with an engine that M-B didn't want

RacingManiac
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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I think the execution for AWD layout is simpler this way as the front diff is a "pass through" and everything is kinda symmetrical. Subaru does essentially the same thing, with their saving grace being the flat 4 engine has a smaller footprint length-wise. Considering I think they still offer FWD only variant for their longitudinal engine car, they don't have any easier way of packaging a AWD system...

skgoa
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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ds.raikkonen wrote: Did nt they have track days or perhaps enthusiastic drivers in mind?
Do you know how tiny a fraction of potential buyers will ever run the car around a racetrack? And do you really think THAT kind of driver isn't going to get a BMW instead, anyways?

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raymondu999
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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Some actually still do bring around Audis.

If you have the quattro, try turning the ASR and ESP off - the understeer isn't actually that bad then.
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ds.raikkonen
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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skgoa wrote:Do you know how tiny a fraction of potential buyers will ever run the car around a racetrack? And do you really think THAT kind of driver isn't going to get a BMW instead, anyways?
That's what you think, that people will go for a BMW instead. After all, it is the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'. So then what are RS and S Audis for? Posers and show-offs? Automobile manufacturers do test their cars on the track. Even small hatchbacks are being taken to the Nurburgring these days.
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary...that’s what gets you.” - JC

skgoa
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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Yes but the huge, overwhelming majority of buyers will never ever go to a track day. It's racing pedigree people want to buy, not actual performance. Audi drivers (at least here in Germany) especially choose their brand not only for being sporty but also for being great cars in terms of build quality, comfort etc. - you simply get the same track performance/fun for less money by going with a BMW. I would buy an Audi road car over a BMW or a Mercedes (almost) any time... but not as a glorified toy.

marcush.
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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take one of those to a track and let´s see how ít stands up...short circuit hockenheim ,anyone? not for long ...Nordschleife? of course no pronlem:as there is almost nil heavy breaking and you need some serious suspension travel as well ..

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raymondu999
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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marcush. wrote:take one of those to a track and let´s see how ít stands up...short circuit hockenheim ,anyone? not for long ...Nordschleife? of course no pronlem:as there is almost nil heavy breaking and you need some serious suspension travel as well ..
That's skgoa's point though - very little, if any, people bring Audis to track days.
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ds.raikkonen
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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skgoa wrote:It's racing pedigree people want to buy, not actual performance. Audi drivers (at least here in Germany) especially choose their brand not only for being sporty but also for being great cars in terms of build quality, comfort etc...
Yeah, I agree on that one. All the people I have met who an Audi and have previously owned a BMW or a Mercedes have praised the 'superior' quality of materials used inside the car.
Check this out: http://www.superbrands.com/za/pdfs/AUDI.pdf
Audi's brand image is actualy that of 'Sophistication and technology', or in other words, it's a nerd on four wheels :mrgreen: All of them are pretty much similar in terms of overall build quality. However, I ll still go for a beemer anyday :) Just love the 'Bavarian flag' for some reason.
marcush. wrote:take one of those to a track and let´s see how ít stands up...short circuit hockenheim ,anyone?..
I think we all know what the result of that one would be, any BMW will trump an Audi on the track 8)
raymondu999 wrote:That's skgoa's point though - very little, if any, people bring Audis to track days.
And that's actually weird. They re afraid of AMG Mercs and M/Schnitzer/Hamann/Hartge Beemers thrashing them eh? Or they simply do not have the time and don't want to have fun with their machines, only use them as a tool.
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary...that’s what gets you.” - JC

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raymondu999
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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Perhaps those who buy Audis don't really go out there? And perhaps those who DO go there (there = track) buy BMWs? I don't know.

My daily driver is an Audi myself, and though it's quite a sporty Audi I never bring it on to a track - that's what "raw"er cars are for :twisted:
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ds.raikkonen
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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raymondu999 wrote:..and though it's quite a sporty Audi I never bring it on to a track - that's what "raw"er cars are for :twisted:
Or perhaps you re worried about the cost of a new set of tyres :mrgreen: And if it's a manual, an upgraded clutch as well.
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary...that’s what gets you.” - JC

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raymondu999
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Re: VW group's unique platform sharing architecture

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Oh that doesn't worry me. I've burnt much more than my fair share of rubber on my muscle cars. And I used to drift too, which burns the rubber out a lot quicker. It's like they said on Top Gear a while back - the M3 is a much racier, much more "raw" car. The S4 is much more of a "smooth operator."
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