Why not a production fan car?

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Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Why not a production fan car?

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Probably a stupid question, but I´m wondering about this.

Aero is not worth on production cars (generally speaking) as it´s only worth at not legal speeds (lucky you germans), and it also is more or less banned because of pedestrian safety.

But a fan car would creat DF at any speed, even standing still, so it would be worth, and actually it would improve both accelerations and braking even at road legal speeds, and it would do that without any appendix wich wouldn´t be safe for pedestrians so, what´s the reason no manufacturer did it?

Another strong point would be it can be activated or deactivated, to maximice grip or fuel economy.

Probably because of bumps, so my question is, what´s the max clearance (skirt-tarmac) wich a fan car could handle and still create DF? I know it will depend on many factors, specially fan power, so if we consider a fan similar to those used in F1 a long time ago, what would be max clearance to still be effective?

Also, when you see cars like LaFerrari with active aero all around, including diffusers, I can´t stop thinking if they use all that technology for active skirts they might achieve much higher DF levels?

There are many cars with sensors analysing road to adjust suspensions accordingly, so they may use similar sensors to adapt active skirts height... or not?

There must be some more reason I´m missing, so I´ve started this thread :)

rich1701
8
Joined: 11 Sep 2009, 17:09

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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essentially this would be over engineering a solution to a problem that can be solved through much cheaper and reliable means.

McMrocks
32
Joined: 14 Apr 2012, 17:58

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Some people need a trunk at their car. A fan would use a lot of that space you'd also have to have a smooth floor. The routing of the exhaust could become problematic, too. For cars with the engine in the back it would be even more difficult

I don't know until what height the fan creates considerable downforce but i know that the minimum ground clearance in Germany is 5 (or 7?) cm. I don't know if that is close enough.


Anyhow, my Prof put it that way, if you increase Grip the silly people will crash at higher speeds.

A normal road car is plenty enough to get to your destination in a reasonable time. Fans would only add weight and burn fuel.

Silent Storm
102
Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Fan in a road car or a hyper car would be great even active skirts alone can be good too. Fan could increase downforce from standstill which could be great for traction and those 0-100 figures.

Although I am seeing a trend with even hypercars nowadays that people want it to be easy to drive and comfortable at slow speed. You don't need to have basic knowledge about how to handle these super fast cars nowadays.

The only reason I can think about why it is not implemented on road cars can be TYRES!!

Yeah you can say that you don't need that high level of downforce from a fan car that the tyres cannot handle it, but then why have it in the first place if u don't want astronomical level of grip.
The ones with the least to say always want to be heard the most…

NL_Fer
82
Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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I have never driven a supercar, but doesn't one with an unpracticly low ground clearance and superwide (unsafe in te rain type) already corner fast enough?

Is there really any need for faster cornering on the road?

I was doing 200 yesterday on the Autobahn, in a Seat Leon family stationcar. Need need for more grip, i cannot how it must be in a Porsche or Ferrari, with su much more grip and wider tyres.

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crbassassin
-4
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 20:22

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Imagine a fan car sucking up a unfastened man hole cover.

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DiogoBrand
73
Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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The real question here is: Why do you need downforce on a production car?

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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It would be possible, with bespoke tires and active suspension. On a P1/laferrari kind of hypercar.

The main reason I think is estatics. A fan to generate downforce, especially in (relative) low-speed corners is like putting a turbo to get power. It works but it's not what the buyers want. They want a V12 with lots of revs.

Plus, a hypercar can generate about 1.5 G of cornering speed now, what goes beyond the capabilities of almost all drivers now, making that 2.5 or even 3 and the car will be undriverble for anybody without a super licence (and very dangerous)

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crbassassin
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 20:22

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Jolle wrote: Plus, a hypercar can generate about 1.5 G of cornering speed now
Which one does that? Most of the hyper cars can only go fast on a straight road. Supercars on the other hand are better than hypercars in terms of centripetal acceleration.

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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crbassassin wrote:
Jolle wrote: Plus, a hypercar can generate about 1.5 G of cornering speed now
Which one does that? Most of the hyper cars can only go fast on a straight road. Supercars on the other hand are better than hypercars in terms of centripetal acceleration.
I read somewhere that the P1 had a claimed latheral force of 2.0G+

Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

sosic2121
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Joined: 08 Jun 2016, 12:14

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Jolle wrote:
crbassassin wrote:
Jolle wrote: Plus, a hypercar can generate about 1.5 G of cornering speed now
Which one does that? Most of the hyper cars can only go fast on a straight road. Supercars on the other hand are better than hypercars in terms of centripetal acceleration.
I read somewhere that the P1 had a claimed latheral force of 2.0G+
Koenigsegg claims 2G for One.

domh245
30
Joined: 12 Mar 2015, 21:55
Location: Nottingham

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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crbassassin wrote:Imagine a fan car sucking up a unfastened man hole cover.
I think this is one of the more likely reasons. You'd also run into issues with the car following the fan car getting grit blasted all over it, surely.

sosic2121
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Joined: 08 Jun 2016, 12:14

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Also, I think it would be really noisy.

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F1NAC
163
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: Why not a production fan car?

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Here it is, a fan car. Ariel Atom AERO-P. It's a concpet but still interesting. Designed using CFD

It has sealed floor with rubber and inside are 2 highspeed fans. Goal was to reduce drag produced by fixed aerofoils, also reduce fuel consumption with removing aerofoils.
Ariel has chosen to use ground-effect downforce in order to address the negatives of using only passive parts. The British car maker says the drag created by fixed aerofoils reduces top speed, increases fuel consumption and therefore also emissions. Ariel also says that Atoms running fixed wings suffer as much as 15% extra drag.

The Aero-P Atom does away with wings and fixed aerodynamic parts, reducing drag and therefore improving straight-line performance. The concept produces downforce using two high-speed fans mounted under the car and rubber skirt that seal the ground under its floor.
Still there are no photos of fans

Image

and how strong is this rubber?