UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
Locked
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

This is the cancerous kneejerking that weakens AGW. It's part of what founded the views those like strad have. You've jumped to conclusions while we're actually in agreement over the basic situation.

I'm making a point about perspective. Mass human activity has big measurable effects, many negative, many that should be addressed, but it is inacurrate to compare it to the immediate destructive power of heavenly bodies or volcanism.

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

Now that is the real problem. If there is a general scientific consensus based on proof, data and evidence, like for instance something obvious as the world is round, somehow there must be room for a different point of view. This attention this pseudoscience gets on the news, on the internet, makes us stupid and is dangerous. It used to live safely with the village idiot.
Look at something as Brexit. All research told us it would be a disaster but the Brexit bus full of lies got the same weight. They even had it as a policy: we’re tired of listening to experts.

Like you have a vote under the passengers who lands the plane. The pilot or that bully from 36C.

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

I am not good at transcribing Audible books and sometimes understanding the pronunciation of names.
I am not here to sway you, I know I can't compete with the propaganda machine. But I will tell you that not one of their so called models have bee correct. When the dire results don't happen I expect you'll admit you're wrong to believe this mass psychological manipulation. It's not just the climate you know. They use they same methods of mass psychology in almost everything and most all advertising. And it almost always works using fear. Obviously none read Benays' methodology or you'd see the way it dovetails into what they do.
BTW I have listed a number of books when we had this discussion before.
I knew this is what would happen as it's far easier to be swept up in the herd mentality than to do the research.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

I will attempt to transcribe the experts and their credentials but it may take me a while because as I said I'm not got at transcribing and I do have other things to do.
Yes Dear I'll get right on those honey do chores. :lol: :lol:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

strad wrote:
03 Aug 2019, 18:33
People should compare the credentials. There are more scientists with meteorological degrees and expertise that don't believe any warming is man made than on the other side.
The warmists are using Edward Benays (the father of spin) methods of mass psychology and herd instinct against us.
You can't just believe what you hear from the news and from the emissaries that have something to gain.
Don't just believe me either research both sides seriously.
Obviously I won´t believe you. Specially when I know scientists wich are working in climate change for decades, and they say it´s damn obvious we´re changing the climate way faster than any other previous warming period

Research about permafrost and how few years back it was used as a runway for planes, and now not even a snowmobile can go over it Strad, then come here and tell me climate change is a fake if you will :roll:

BTW, your claim about more scientists than don´t believe in any human warming is one of the most absurd, biased and nosense statements I´ve read in decades Strad, sincerely. There are few scientist who negate we humans are the main factor in climate change... wich is comparable to the percentage of people who still believe the Earth is flat. Yes, there are people who still believe the Earth is flat

Few years back negationists said climate change do not exist. Now that they can´t negate this anymore, they say climate change is not caused by humans... #-o What will be next excuse?
Last edited by Andres125sx on 06 Aug 2019, 08:10, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

Past July was the warmest July since there are records

https://climate.copernicus.eu/another-e ... mperatures

Tommy Cookers
617
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 08:00
....Few years back negationists said climate change do not exist. Now that they can´t negate this anymore, they say climate change is not caused by humans... #-o What will be next excuse?
Andres
this is 100% wrong
natural climate change has always been the friend of those you call negationists
it is the advocates of manmade CC who deny natural CC

btw
no-one has ever said manmade CC doesn't exist
those called CC deniers (negationists) are simply questioning the claimed extent of CC and supposedly inevitable damage

I was asked about natural CC by an archaeologist/historian 50 years ago
when the climate experts all (except 1) knew that manmade climate cooling was the great danger
because they had worldwide physical proof of episodes of cooling in recent times


meteorologists complain about the falsification of temperature data
by unfair selection ie deliberate changes in the recording sites chosen
this falsification is done to produce a falsely continuous warming
amusing because the warmists have always warned that intermittent temperature rise is characteristic of genuine warming

you seem to have forgotten your declaration that this faking of evidence is justified
which (justification) I haven't disputed
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on 06 Aug 2019, 09:41, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

[quote="Tommy Cookers" post_id=854192 time=1565076185 user_id=13644]
[quote=Andres125sx post_id=854179 time=1565071240 user_id=18384]
....Few years back negationists said climate change do not exist. Now that they can´t negate this anymore, they say climate change is not caused by humans... #-o What will be next excuse?
[/quote]
this is 100% wrong
natural climate change has always been the friend of those you call negationists
it is the advocates of manmade CC who deny natural CC
[/quote]

Sorry but this is false, no scientist deny natural CC, none I know or have read at least. What all of them say is current CC is several orders of magnitude faster than previous and natural CC, which is the real problem, as plants and animals can't get used to it and it's causing a worrying unbalance

Greg Locock
233
Joined: 30 Jun 2012, 00:48

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

They aren't comparing like with like, when they are talking about speed of change. The proxies they use for establishing temperature in the days before thermometers have different time constants to real thermometers. Most of the hockey stick is based on tree ring growth, and some of us are a bit suspicious that tree rings may tell you more about tree growing conditions than average annual temperature. One little bit of news about that is that if you use the same proxies as were used in the hockey stick, the temperature actually fell towards the end of the 20th century.
Image

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it shows that the proxies weren't much good as thermometers, so there is no particular reason to believe they have the same time constant as thermometers.

However we do have one long temperature record, HADCET, for central England, made with real thermometers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_E ... _1659).png

Image

In which you can see the rapidity and size of the recent warming is not unusual (I suggest using the 10 year MA -the orange one)

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

Greg, I'm sure scientists who study climate change know that data, and much more, but they still are worried about CC, they still say we need a huge change in habits and mentality. Sorry but I don't think you've discovered anything new to them

Also, they are not politicians who need to convince people about their own interests, they are scientists.

OTOH we have the biggest companies in the world who may have huge loses if we get rid of ICEs, and countries whose economics are based on polluting industries. We all know how far these companies and countries are willing to go to prevent that, so we all have read biased articles stating how false CC is, how useless EVs are, how dangerous and expensive renewables are, etc

If CC was not caused by humans, we'd read dozens of reliable articles daily, everywhere, proving that, as those who will lose more with the change have more than enough power to make it a daily debate. But instead of that their adversaries have been slowly growing in the media for decades despite being scientists with no power, despite big companies efforts to hide it, until we reached current scenario where most people agree.

Sincerely, none fight big companies and most powerful countries interests, and succed, if he's not supported by the truth. It took them decades, literally, to be listened, and obviously there will always be naysayers same as there are some people who in XXI century still claim the world is flat, but that's part of human nature, the veracity of human impact on CC is quite obvious nowadays, if you do a serious search the info you can find is overwhelming, no matter what field you look at, seas temperatures or animal life, arctic permafrost, atmosphere, plants... There are reports stating how real CC is everywhere you look at, despite being really harmful to most powerful companies and countries, but situation reached a point where they can't hide it anymore, they did it for decades with great success, but today there are too many scientists all around the world to continue discrediting them

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

BTW, your claim about more scientists than don´t believe in any human warming is one of the most absurd, biased and nosense statements I´ve read in decades Strad, sincerely
.
That is exactly what I would expect as one of the main tenets of mass psychology is to denigrate those on the other side.
What they do and have done is create an echo chamber of scientists that all agree to agree. IF you would read about Edward Benays you'd understand better but then I guess it's easier to listen to the medias BS than to research.
The national association of scholars writes: S. Fred Singer a leading skeptic of anthropogenic Global warming (AGW)
founder of the science and environmental policy project is an atmospheric physicist has challenged the IPCC findings and the Kyoto protocol since the 90s and produced a paper signed by over 100 scientists and meteorologists and an 800 page report that challenges their finding. He does believe there has been some warming but doesn't believe it's manmade . He says he feels his studies have proven that any manmade effects have been at best minimal and that the science is far from settled.
Patrick Michaels (spelling?) formerly a professor at the University of Virginia and currently the director of the Center for Study of Science at the Cato institute as well as a senior fellow in research and development at George Mason University explains that climate models have done a remarkably poor in replicating the evolution of global temperature during the past several decades and that high end climate horror stories emanating from these models are largely unsupported by observations, further they manage to ignore a spate of published science demonstrating that the sensitivity of temperature to carbon dioxide changes was substantially over estimated in those models. Richard S. Lindsen(spelling?) is a distinguished senior fellow at Cato's center for study of science , emeritus professor of meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and previously professor of Dynamic Meteorology at Harvard University, a member of the Academy of Sciences and a fellow of both the American Meteorological Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science ,he received the Jewel G Charney award for highly significant research in the atmospheric sciences from the American Meteorological Society and the Distinguished Engineering Achievement Award from the Engineers Council in 2009, Lindsen's research in atmospheric dynamics has led to his conclution that the sensitivity of surface temperature to increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide is considerably below that necessary to generate disastrous climate change. Patrick Moore Greenpeace co-founder and Canadian ecologist testified before the United States Senate, that there is little correlation to support a direct causal relationship between CO2emissions and rising global temperatures. There is no scientific proof that rises on CVO2 are the dominant cause of any minor warming of the atmosphere over the past 100 years if there were such proof it would be written down for all to see. No actual proof as it is understood in science exists. He also criticized the U.N. panel on climate change for claiming it is extremely likely that human activity is the dominant cause for any global warming that might exist. He noted that extremely likely is not a scientific term. He warned that statistics presented by the IPCC are not the result of mathematical calculation or statistical analysis and may have been invented to support the IPCC's expert judgement.
Roy W. Spencer received his PHD in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin in 1981 before becoming a principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in 2001. He was a senior scientist for climate studies at NASA's Marshalls Space Flight Center where he and Dr. John Christy received NASA's exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal
for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites. Dr. Spencer's work with NASA continues as the science team leader for advanced microwave scanning radiometer flying on NASA's Aqua satellite. During a presentation at the Heartland Institute's 9th international conference on climate change in Las Vegas Spencer explained that too many people think that all areas of science are created equal and that scientist objectively look for the answers but no there are two kind of scientists male and female other than that they're the same as everybody else and in many instances in the climate sciences more biased than your average person and went on to criticize the temperature data of NOAA because it has never taken into account the phenomenon of urban heat island effect...………"I could go on but I suppose these distinguished scientists accolades aren't good enough for you.
You'd rather listen to some talking head on the news being ventriloquized by the IPCC and be insulting to any what you call deniers. Which BTW is really insulting because it's a weak attempt to psychologically link us with those that are Holocaust deniers.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

BTW... IF global warming is exacerbated by cows farting then where was global warming when millions of Bison roamed the north American continent eating plains grass and farting to their hears content. :lol:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

strad wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 21:01
BTW... IF global warming is exacerbated by cows farting then where was global warming when millions of Bison roamed the north American continent eating plains grass and farting to their hears content. :lol:
For the US only: most amount of bisons in the wild in history: 500.000, current amount of cows (only US): 93.000.000, worldwide: 1.500.000.000. Pigs US: 73.000.000, worldwide: 750.000.000

So, just a tad more cows that make a difference...

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

I don't know who counted the bison for you but Lewis and Clark saw many many herds that were over a hundred thousand each. Just read the book. :wink: But it was just a funny as we all know cows farting is not causing global warming. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

Post

Livestock alone contributes around 15-16% of the total geen house emissions and if you take all the secondary emissions in account (deforestation, transport, waterpollution), it's one of the major factors in our selfdestruction .

But I guess because it's done by scientists, it's bias ;-)

Locked