Autonomous Cars

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strad
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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I doubt there are millions of people embarking on 1500mi road trips daily
I would bet there are at least one million and that doesn't count truckers.
I wouldn't want to guess how many trips I have made from Seattle to Phoenix.
literally hundreds.
My son is a salesman that has a territory of Arizona, California, Oregon, Washington plus Alaska but he flies up there.
On his last trip up here he logged 1200+ miles in two days just in Washington and Oregon.
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AJI
AJI
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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roon wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:54 pm
strad wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:01 pm
But here in the United States millions of people a day drive from say Seattle to Phoenix straight through. From L.A. to New Orleans with a couple of driver changes. That sort of thing.
I doubt there are millions of people embarking on 1500mi road trips daily. This would require more than one out of every 200 drivers in the US to be doing so.
Strad, you started this as an autonomous vehicle thread, not an electric autonomous vehicle thread.

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strad
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Seems that others morphed it into a little of both.
Would you like to split it? I sure wouldn't mind.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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AJI
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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strad wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:35 am
Seems that others morphed it into a little of both.
Would you like to split it? I sure wouldn't mind.
It's probably worthwhile to split the topics so the conversation doesn't devolve into an off-topic 'range anxiety' argument.
Almost any ICE powered car released today has the ability to be converted to AV without too much effort. Filling them up with fuel will still have to be done by a human I suppose..?
Fun fact: In Australia we used to call petrol stations 'service stations', because the man came out and filled up your car for you, however the 'service' part is now self-service. We often still call them 'servo's', e.g. 'goin down the servo to get a pack a durries, youse want sumthin?'

notsofast
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:42 am
Just imagine, less traffic jams and if you are in one, just hang back and wait...
No traffic jams at all. Your car will tell you that you'll have to wait 30 minutes before you can leave, because that's the next slot that's available. Just like airplanes.

fpatel
fpatel
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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For now, nope. I will never allow my family to ride one of them now. I think there are so many aspects that need to be fixed and perfected by the car companies, especially if they want to operate these things on public roads. I have also read at https://www.lemberglaw.com/self-driving ... attorneys/ about it. I don't know if someone offers me to ride these cars 5-10 years from now. I will accept this technology if I think it's safe enough for me and my family.

bjpower
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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I think it will be great if they ever get it going to a high standard.
You have multiple types of driver's.

You have people who enjoy driving recognize it is a skill and will be always trying to improve. - prob most on this forum and we will not give up control :)

Then you have professional driver's normally good but might go down the auto drive route.

But the vast majority of driver's are driving because they have to. They do not like it. They do not try and improve their skill etc. And are generally crap and a nuisance on the road. The computer will be better and give us a better experience.

Bring it on.

PS by skill I don't mean driving like you are trying to win the wrc . More reading the road. Maintaining control. keeping it smooth etc.

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Big Tea
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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bjpower wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:11 am
I think it will be great if they ever get it going to a high standard.
You have multiple types of driver's.

You have people who enjoy driving recognize it is a skill and will be always trying to improve. - prob most on this forum and we will not give up control :)

Then you have professional driver's normally good but might go down the auto drive route.

But the vast majority of driver's are driving because they have to. They do not like it. They do not try and improve their skill etc. And are generally crap and a nuisance on the road. The computer will be better and give us a better experience.

Bring it on.

PS by skill I don't mean driving like you are trying to win the wrc . More reading the road. Maintaining control. keeping it smooth etc.
I like driving, but to be honest now most of the enjoyment is gone. You are following the car in front, moving at the same pace while being concerned the person behind you is too close and more concerned with the kids in their back seat than you infront and waiting for the knock.

Roads I would do 25 mph due to dangers, many seem to be taking off as fast as possible and driving at 50mph (30 limit) While roads fine to be moving considerably quicker you are behind a car that varies between 25 and 60 depending on the overtaking opportunities. Thats 25 what you can not then 60 where it becomes possible, so you do not.

This is not assisted by the UK ridiculous speed limit posting. A 3 mile drive to town from where I live goes. #
40-30-50-30-40-50-70-30.
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henry
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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strad wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:01 pm
henry;
Near future? I'd call that 10 years and I don't see AVs making any massive inroads in 10 years. Strides? Yes, and maybe more so in Europe or England but less in the U.S..
As has been pointed out, charge times and range reliability rightly or wrongly play a big part along with cost.
IF you could recharge on a 1200 mile trip as quickly as you can fill up your tank that would eliminate much of the hesitation. But here in the United States millions of people a day drive from say Seattle to Phoenix straight through. From L.A. to New Orleans with a couple of driver changes. That sort of thing.
I do believe those of you younger than me will see the time, but not until they address those problems. Certainly not in my short lifetime left.
I didn’t say anything about timescales but since you ask.

Very limited commercial autonomous ride hail services are scheduled for this year, Waymo in Phoenix and Baidu in China, and other smaller endeavours. Both major deployments are Technology companies. The expertise that needs to be evaluated and developed right now is the measurement and control, sensors, compute power and algorithms and their implementation.

This is not where the big automakers have expertise. They will partner or buy to obtain that. Their expertise is building vehicles in large numbers at a profit. As Tesla are finding that’s not as easy as it looks. The big automakers are targeting 2020-2022 for volume production of autonomous cars. It seems likely that by the time 10 years have passed (2028) volume autonomous ride hailing will have been in place for a minimum of 5 years. There will be restrictions, weather, street layout, population density and wealth will all need to be suitable. But their operating scope will extend over that time.

For the long distance traveller the driver assist features available in higher end vehicles today will continue to develop, they shouldn’t be called autonomous, but they will, and will definitely ease the strain involved in long distance journeys. (I tried them over Christmas last year and they are a key feature I would seek when I replace my current car) Higher end vehicles will cross over and provide last mile in areas where ride-hailing is enabled.

You’re right to mention EV, although not in the area of long distance. EV would seem to be a good match for ride hailing in urban environments. Low manufacturing and maintenance costs, low brake wear, possibility to reduce tyre wear by torque vectoring, and many fewer parts to fail. Range need be only 150-200 miles or so with a couple of scheduled recharging events to allow 20 hour/day deployment. Expect to see dual purpose vehicles shifting between people and goods carrying configurations.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Zynerji
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Any thoughts on using the "grounding straps" that F1 used in the pit box as a recharging system for autonomous EVs in an urban environment?

I could see an automated parking garage where the fleet just rotates through for 100% uptime.

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JonoNic
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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For EV. You have four rotating wheels touching the road when a vehicle moves, if you make them rotating magnets in the wheels and the road itself then they can be used as range extenders... not much but it helps. No dangerous electrified roads.
Always find the gap then use it.

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Big Tea
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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What are the possibilities of a removable 'booster pack' range extender?
In addition to the normal inbuilt battery, a company say Shell, supply a 'pack' at point B of your trip, and at point C it is either returned to save weight, or exchanged until point D where it is left at the Shell station to be recharged and you account re credited with one unit while you continue to point D

The unit can either supply drive power directly or boost charge the onboard units while you drive.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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henry
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Zynerji wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:44 pm
Any thoughts on using the "grounding straps" that F1 used in the pit box as a recharging system for autonomous EVs in an urban environment?

I could see an automated parking garage where the fleet just rotates through for 100% uptime.
Not very likely. Those straps would deliver very little current. They will probably want to charge at quite high rates at dedicated charging stations. They might be in facilities that ensure sensor cleanliness. In fact cleanliness in general, since detractors will try to frighten people with tales of poor hygiene.

Charging rates of 50 kW or more are likely. They might consider induction plates in conventional car parking slots, BMW are offering them for your drive but they only deliver 3.5 kW and of course there is an efficiency cost.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:05 pm
What are the possibilities of a removable 'booster pack' range extender?
In addition to the normal inbuilt battery, a company say Shell, supply a 'pack' at point B of your trip, and at point C it is either returned to save weight, or exchanged until point D where it is left at the Shell station to be recharged and you account re credited with one unit while you continue to point D

The unit can either supply drive power directly or boost charge the onboard units while you drive.
Back when I was a lad, I had an encyclopedia that had a section about "future technology". In there was a bit about electric cars and there was a picture of a fuel station where the car's battery was swapped out for a fresh one. The battery was loaded in from the side and the "old" one was pushed out the other side of the car. This was envisaged in the 1970s.

The change in business model would be that BP, Shell, Esso etc would charge you for a fully charged battery - a battery that they owned and that you effectively would rent as you discharged it. The company would then maintain and recharge the batteries. Instead of just selling you the liquid fuel as they do now, they'd sell you the electrical energy plus a bit for the maintenance of the batteries.

Such a scheme would be as fast to use as current wet fuel systems.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Zynerji
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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That's rather how electric reach forklifts now operate. Battery swaps.