Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Brake Horse Power
Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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My 5.4kW system in Melbourne (much worse weather than Adelaide) still averages 10.2 kWh's p/d over the worst winter month (July). In the Summer (Jan) it averages 32.9 kWh's p/d.
Output from PV in Australia must be insane. How much does energy does it provide annually?
Make elektrofuels from it and you have a very nice export product.. Space enough probably in Australia to fill with solar panels..

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Brake Horse Power wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:07 am

My 5.4kW system in Melbourne (much worse weather than Adelaide) still averages 10.2 kWh's p/d over the worst winter month (July). In the Summer (Jan) it averages 32.9 kWh's p/d.
Output from PV in Australia must be insane. How much does energy does it provide annually?
Make elektrofuels from it and you have a very nice export product.. Space enough probably in Australia to fill with solar panels..
Bear in mind that I live in Melbourne which is not even close to the sunniest city in Australia (that's Adelaide), last year I generated 7.297 MWh and exported 3.916 MWh to the grid.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Greg Locock
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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My house is low energy, we exported about 5500 kWh. At 20c/kWh it more than covers our bill.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Greg Locock wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:36 am
My house is low energy, we exported about 5500 kWh. At 20c/kWh it more than covers our bill.
We have an older house with poor insulation so use a lot more energy than we’d like. I’m planning to retro fit our house with external wall insulation this year (and no I’m not joking, Australian building codes are a joke).

Btw your FIT is amazing, we get half that! Which is why I’ll be investing in storage in the next couple of years.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Cold Fussion
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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A powerwall 2 costs around 12k AUD roughly, what ROI would you expect on that once you've paid off the initial solar system installation cost? If it's still like 10 years, isn't the worry that the battery technology 10 years from now might have such a significant Wh/$ advantage to not make the current installation worth it financially? Seems like that at the moment it's similar to the Wait calculation/problem.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Cold Fussion wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:36 pm
A powerwall 2 costs around 12k AUD roughly, what ROI would you expect on that once you've paid off the initial solar system installation cost? If it's still like 10 years, isn't the worry that the battery technology 10 years from now might have such a significant Wh/$ advantage to not make the current installation worth it financially? Seems like that at the moment it's similar to the Wait calculation/problem.
I think 10 years is likely about right - I'm not planning to buy for another 3 years so I'm hoping that costs will come down or battery longevity will improve the useful lifespan to say 20 years.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 pm
Here is my system on PVO:

https://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=4 ... 34&v=1&t=m
:shock:

I´ve been searching that sort of info all around to know what will I need, it´s pretty difficult when I don´t know anyone with a PV system, but never imagined I would see so much and so detailed, thank you very much for sharing! =D>

PVO looks very interesting, have you compared with some other real systems? Are you on average with other comparable setups?

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:23 pm
djos wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 pm
Here is my system on PVO:

https://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=4 ... 34&v=1&t=m
:shock:

I´ve been searching that sort of info all around to know what will I need, it´s pretty difficult when I don´t know anyone with a PV system, but never imagined I would see so much and so detailed, thank you very much for sharing! =D>

PVO looks very interesting, have you compared with some other real systems? Are you on average with other comparable setups?
No problem at all. It is hard to know who to trust, I got lucky and found an analyst who works for the Clean Energy Council of Australia who happened to live a few suburbs away. Anyway, he recommended the installer I used and while he wasnt the mst expensive I got quotes from, he was far from the cheapest too. But he did an amazing job and a few of my mates who are sparkies were shocked at the quality and care he put in (zero external wiring from the inverter to the meter box is rare).

Image

I do compare mine to other systems on PVO but as I live in a bit of a micro-climate (in the foothills of the yarra ranges) I get very different results to someone even 5kms away. Overall tho my system is insanely efficient - my best day so far yielded 7.500 kWh/kW which for a fixed system (doesnt track the sun) is excellent.

https://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=49 ... t=20191222
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:56 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:23 pm
djos wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 pm
Here is my system on PVO:

https://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=4 ... 34&v=1&t=m
:shock:

I´ve been searching that sort of info all around to know what will I need, it´s pretty difficult when I don´t know anyone with a PV system, but never imagined I would see so much and so detailed, thank you very much for sharing! =D>

PVO looks very interesting, have you compared with some other real systems? Are you on average with other comparable setups?
No problem at all. It is hard to know who to trust, I got lucky and found an analyst who works for the Clean Energy Council of Australia who happened to live a few suburbs away. Anyway, he recommended the installer I used and while he wasnt the mst expensive I got quotes from, he was far from the cheapest too. But he did an amazing job and a few of my mates who are sparkies were shocked at the quality and care he put in (zero external wiring from the inverter to the meter box is rare).

https://i.imgur.com/BzZ3eE3l.jpg

I do compare mine to other systems on PVO but as I live in a bit of a micro-climate (in the foothills of the yarra ranges) I get very different results to someone even 5kms away. Overall tho my system is insanely efficient - my best day so far yielded 7.500 kWh/kW which for a fixed system (doesnt track the sun) is excellent.

https://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=49 ... t=20191222

Haha didn't know electricians are known as sparkies, in Spain we also call them "chispas" wich means the same, but for some reason I thought it was only in Spain


That's indeed a clean installation. About tracking sun... I've been wondering about some sort of manual and simple mechanism to change panels angle, not daily obviously but just an angle adjustment from season to season would probably be worth. If panels are accessible obviously

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Trackers require significant engineering and even single axis solutions are very expensive.

The best option to produce the most Usable power across the day is to install a system with 2 arrays, one east facing and one west facing or at close to this as possible.

This will give you your own power from Sun up to sun down.

My system is a compromise like most, due to my house design and orientation, I have 1.5kW facing NE and 3.9kW facing NW.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:15 pm
Greg Locock wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:36 am
My house is low energy, we exported about 5500 kWh. At 20c/kWh it more than covers our bill.
We have an older house with poor insulation so use a lot more energy than we’d like. I’m planning to retro fit our house with external wall insulation this year (and no I’m not joking, Australian building codes are a joke).

Btw your FIT is amazing, we get half that! Which is why I’ll be investing in storage in the next couple of years.
We overspecced the energy rating as originally we'd decided against air con. So all major windows/patio doors are double glazed, the insulation is up the wazoo, our eaves are overhung to prevent direct heating in summer, and we have a door that isolates the north and south end of the house. That alone was worth some huge benefit. All windows are fly screened.

Then we broke the theory by fitting air con, but it is rarely used, and obviously runs on our own electricity, not grid.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Nice work! Our house was built in 1990 hence the crap insulation etc.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I´m going to go even further and build a passivehaus. Triple glased windows, hermetic house, around 15cm isulation and a ventilator wich takes the heat of the air pumped out to warm fresh air being pumped in (can´t find the name in english)

I really think passivehaus standard or similar should be mandatory nowadays, it´s utterly absurd to build anything wich requires heating (both for economical and environmental reasons) when we can do it good enough to not need any significant heating or cooling, and quite easily btw, it´s just a 10% increase in the bill wich is paid off in less than a tenth of the lifespan
djos wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:37 pm
Trackers require significant engineering and even single axis solutions are very expensive.

The best option to produce the most Usable power across the day is to install a system with 2 arrays, one east facing and one west facing or at close to this as possible.

This will give you your own power from Sun up to sun down.

My system is a compromise like most, due to my house design and orientation, I have 1.5kW facing NE and 3.9kW facing NW.

My idea (just guessing, nothing serious) was some sort of extremelly simple system wich allows panels to be moved up and down from the back, so the front edge is always in contact with the ground, but the back one can be at height 1 or height 2 to accomodate to sun azimut in winter and summer. Tracking sun along the day is much much more complicated, as you need the complete frames to turn, but if it´s just a simple azimut adjustment, it can be done quite easily I think. But no idea what improvements would be expected

I´m construction engineer btw

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Greg Locock wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:49 pm
All windows are fly screened.
Cant find translation to this :?:

Edit: forget it, I found it, first I found some sort of ventilation conduct wich confused me but I guess it´s just a mesh

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:22 pm
I´m going to go even further and build a passivehaus. Triple glased windows, hermetic house, around 15cm isulation and a ventilator wich takes the heat of the air pumped out to warm fresh air being pumped in (can´t find the name in english)

I really think passivehaus standard or similar should be mandatory nowadays, it´s utterly absurd to build anything wich requires heating (both for economical and environmental reasons) when we can do it good enough to not need any significant heating or cooling, and quite easily btw, it´s just a 10% increase in the bill wich is paid off in less than a tenth of the lifespan
djos wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:37 pm
Trackers require significant engineering and even single axis solutions are very expensive.

The best option to produce the most Usable power across the day is to install a system with 2 arrays, one east facing and one west facing or at close to this as possible.

This will give you your own power from Sun up to sun down.

My system is a compromise like most, due to my house design and orientation, I have 1.5kW facing NE and 3.9kW facing NW.

My idea (just guessing, nothing serious) was some sort of extremelly simple system wich allows panels to be moved up and down from the back, so the front edge is always in contact with the ground, but the back one can be at height 1 or height 2 to accomodate to sun azimut in winter and summer. Tracking sun along the day is much much more complicated, as you need the complete frames to turn, but if it´s just a simple azimut adjustment, it can be done quite easily I think. But no idea what improvements would be expected

I´m construction engineer btw
Nice!

Even just a simple azimut adjustment means you have to ensure your array can’t be damaged by high winds or even damage your roof. The panels make great wind sails.

There is a big benefit to this solution tho, your system will generate much closer to its peak Performance through the entire day.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.