Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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subcritical71
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Jolle wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 20:37
What I find most scary, is the disbelieve in science. That there are large groups of people who think they are all part of a conspiracy to somehow steer us away from something and follow politicians who are paid by oil companies and other interest groups benefitting from discrediting organisations like NASA, the WHO and others.

For me climate denial fall into the same group as flat earth theorist, ani vaccine moms, Alex jones listeners, Breitbart followers, etc etc.

This “us against the world” from the current American gouvernement is scary.
For me I’m not convinced one way or the other. That is because I have never bothered to do my own research into the subject. In general I don’t tend to form a personal opinion on anything that I haven’t at least partially researched on my own. So if you ask me today if I think man made GCC is real I would say I don’t know. Does that make me a nutcase because I haven’t blindly accepted what others are trying to cram down my throat? Does being called a nutcase help me form a ‘correct’ opinion on which side is using science to prove their own positions?
Is the earth flat, no. Is it round, no, and there is overwhelming scientific evidence to back that up. If uninformed people think that the earth is round (i.e. most of the population) are they also nutcases?
Last edited by subcritical71 on 10 Aug 2019, 11:33, edited 1 time in total.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Edax wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 10:59
That is partly because the the science around climate change is pretty bad.
Rubbish, there have been some minor errors cropping up here and there*, eg the 2007 IPCC report, but these have been trivial and easily addressed.

*Humans are involved, not surprising
"In downforce we trust"

Jolle
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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subcritical71 wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 11:28
Jolle wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 20:37
What I find most scary, is the disbelieve in science. That there are large groups of people who think they are all part of a conspiracy to somehow steer us away from something and follow politicians who are paid by oil companies and other interest groups benefitting from discrediting organisations like NASA, the WHO and others.

For me climate denial fall into the same group as flat earth theorist, ani vaccine moms, Alex jones listeners, Breitbart followers, etc etc.

This “us against the world” from the current American gouvernement is scary.
For me I’m not convinced one way or the other. That is because I have never bothered to do my own research into the subject. In general I don’t tend to form a personal opinion on anything that I haven’t at least partially researched on my own. So if you ask me today if I think man made GCC is real I would say I don’t know. Does that make me a nutcase because I haven’t blindly accepted what others are trying to cram down my throat? Does being called a nutcase help me form a ‘correct’ opinion on which side is using science to prove their own positions?
Is the earth flat, no. Is it round, no, and there is overwhelming scientific evidence to back that up. If uninformed people think that the earth is round (i.e. most of the population) are they also nutcases?
Because lots of subjects are far to complicated to research by yourself we have organizations like NASA (who have incredible amounts of data, thousands of people working on it) to conduct studies and give the gouvernement and society advise how to handle certain problems. We have this system in many areas. Medical, economic, social, etc etc. Without a political or economical reasoning. The conspiracy theorist, the nationalists, powerful companies with interest are pushing to discredit these organizations and their studies.

Hell, the oil companies even put in their man Tillerson forward to ease ties with Gasprom. They are not even hiding it.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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subcritical71 wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 11:28
Jolle wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 20:37
What I find most scary, is the disbelieve in science. That there are large groups of people who think they are all part of a conspiracy to somehow steer us away from something and follow politicians who are paid by oil companies and other interest groups benefitting from discrediting organisations like NASA, the WHO and others.

For me climate denial fall into the same group as flat earth theorist, ani vaccine moms, Alex jones listeners, Breitbart followers, etc etc.

This “us against the world” from the current American gouvernement is scary.
For me I’m not convinced one way or the other. That is because I have never bothered to do my own research into the subject. In general I don’t tend to form a personal opinion on anything that I haven’t at least partially researched on my own. So if you ask me today if I think man made GCC is real I would say I don’t know. Does that make me a nutcase because I haven’t blindly accepted what others are trying to cram down my throat? Does being called a nutcase help me form a ‘correct’ opinion on which side is using science to prove their own positions?
Is the earth flat, no. Is it round, no, and there is overwhelming scientific evidence to back that up. If uninformed people think that the earth is round (i.e. most of the population) are they also nutcases?
That's a wise attitude... but only to some point, as you can't pretend to understand everything. In modern world specialization has gone so far some people invest their whole life analysing some specific problem into some specific field, so you'd need same qualification to them, and also a good amount of time to analyse all their study, which obviously is not practical nor real.

As Jolle said that's the reason for companies or organizations like NASA, WHO, IPCC, etc, they're not relying on some specific opinion, their reports are based on deep studies which are supported by most scientifics, so sincerely, assuming you can know better than them just doing some hours of research in my eyes look arrogant, sorry for my frankness :oops:

Only reasonable reason for that attitude would be if you don't rely on these organisms, which as Jolle also said is scary if people don't rely on worldwide scientific organisms and think they can know better than them just with some search in the net :shock:

Obviously there will always be discordant opinions, but that's normal, nothing has ever reached 100% agreement, but when general consensus is clear for most scientifics, most scientific organisms and most countries, ignoring this general consensus and focusing on the discordant opinions don't look too sensible IMO, specially when this consensus has been growing for decades, from something pointed out from few scientifics, to current scenario with most scientifics agreement.

IMHO this progress during the decades speaks volumes about reality, specially when you consider it succeed despite oil companies efforts to hide it

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I was thinking last night (that must be the second time now :D ) what could be the tipping factor for electric vehicles.
I had been disguising with my brother-in-law. who is changing his vehicle, that my next one would probably be electric did he consider it. His reply was no, because he lives in the hills and needs a vehicle for the snow.

Am I right in thinking an electric vehicle would be ideal for the snow? They already have detectors for wheel slip (abs, etc) so would it not be a straightforward 'brain' linking wheelspin/slip to varying the amount of output or regen retardation?

This never seems to be mentioned in relation to EV's but seems to me to be their 'killer app'.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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henry
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Do they have much snow in Norway?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Jolle
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Big Tea wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 15:51
I was thinking last night (that must be the second time now :D ) what could be the tipping factor for electric vehicles.
I had been disguising with my brother-in-law. who is changing his vehicle, that my next one would probably be electric did he consider it. His reply was no, because he lives in the hills and needs a vehicle for the snow.

Am I right in thinking an electric vehicle would be ideal for the snow? They already have detectors for wheel slip (abs, etc) so would it not be a straightforward 'brain' linking wheelspin/slip to varying the amount of output or regen retardation?

This never seems to be mentioned in relation to EV's but seems to me to be their 'killer app'.
The only reason now, for not having a EV in a hill/snow area is weight. I remember times where my Saab 96 was quickly up (snowy) hills where big Volvo's were struggling. But with modern snow tires, that wouldn't be a problem anymore, where many snow lovers drive very heavy SUV's anyway.

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subcritical71
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Big Tea wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 15:51
I was thinking last night (that must be the second time now :D ) what could be the tipping factor for electric vehicles.
I had been disguising with my brother-in-law. who is changing his vehicle, that my next one would probably be electric did he consider it. His reply was no, because he lives in the hills and needs a vehicle for the snow.

Am I right in thinking an electric vehicle would be ideal for the snow? They already have detectors for wheel slip (abs, etc) so would it not be a straightforward 'brain' linking wheelspin/slip to varying the amount of output or regen retardation?

This never seems to be mentioned in relation to EV's but seems to me to be their 'killer app'.
I would think that with the reasons you state that the snow could be made to be an almost non-issue. Look what they have done with 0-60 times. Just a few videos showing it in the snow. Only downside is the colder weather brings reduced battery energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlSv9fGT1Fk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaserLHhgQ <- This one seems overboard with the wheel spin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cNEbA8CqYs

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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subcritical71 wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 17:02
Big Tea wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 15:51
I was thinking last night (that must be the second time now :D ) what could be the tipping factor for electric vehicles.
I had been disguising with my brother-in-law. who is changing his vehicle, that my next one would probably be electric did he consider it. His reply was no, because he lives in the hills and needs a vehicle for the snow.

Am I right in thinking an electric vehicle would be ideal for the snow? They already have detectors for wheel slip (abs, etc) so would it not be a straightforward 'brain' linking wheelspin/slip to varying the amount of output or regen retardation?

This never seems to be mentioned in relation to EV's but seems to me to be their 'killer app'.
I would think that with the reasons you state that the snow could be made to be an almost non-issue. Look what they have done with 0-60 times. Just a few videos showing it in the snow. Only downside is the colder weather brings reduced battery energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlSv9fGT1Fk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaserLHhgQ <- This one seems overboard with the wheel spin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cNEbA8CqYs
Thanks, I had not seen them. I was thinking for UK where we have a couple of days of 'unexpected' snow a year and the whole country comes to a stop. Looks like they should be pushing this more.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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If your Brother still has some patience maybe a Rivian is a good (read awesome) choice

Image

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Brake Horse Power wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 17:42
If your Brother still has some patience maybe a Rivian is a good (read awesome) choice

https://www.tflcar.com/wp-content/uploa ... 1s-103.jpg
We are in UK, and have never heard of it let alone seen a dealer :D

He just seems to be a life long RangeRover fan, just for the image of it :D ( He even has green wellies with the badge on :twisted: )
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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subcritical71 wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 17:02
Big Tea wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 15:51
I was thinking last night (that must be the second time now :D ) what could be the tipping factor for electric vehicles.
I had been disguising with my brother-in-law. who is changing his vehicle, that my next one would probably be electric did he consider it. His reply was no, because he lives in the hills and needs a vehicle for the snow.

Am I right in thinking an electric vehicle would be ideal for the snow? They already have detectors for wheel slip (abs, etc) so would it not be a straightforward 'brain' linking wheelspin/slip to varying the amount of output or regen retardation?

This never seems to be mentioned in relation to EV's but seems to me to be their 'killer app'.
I would think that with the reasons you state that the snow could be made to be an almost non-issue. Look what they have done with 0-60 times. Just a few videos showing it in the snow. Only downside is the colder weather brings reduced battery energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlSv9fGT1Fk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaserLHhgQ <- This one seems overboard with the wheel spin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cNEbA8CqYs
Nice videos, impressive traction for winter tires, but the comparison with the Hummer is not fair, huge weight difference. Anycase impresive perfomance for Tesla in the snow

About the downside, not that much as in the snow you can´t apply full power so a bit reduced battery power is not a problem, and the battery warms up itself once you´re driving so there´s no real reduction in battery energy

I think maybe biggest advantage in the snow is for EV only because of the capability to spin the wheels really slow without killing the clutch, as is shown in the second video while starting mid-slope. Hummer have more problems because of this, his wheels spin much easier because, even with a reduction gear, to spin the wheels as slow as the Tesla (wich provide the highest traction) you must be holding the clutch causing it to overheat and wear


But otoh weight is crucial in this case, and EVs are very heavy nowadays. Best vehicle (with wheels) to climb a slope is something like this, not kidding, probably the lightest 4x4 with differential lock (is that the name in english?)

Image


This is the new model, my father (who´s a hunter) has seen the old version going easily over mud wich had trapped much more expensive cars, I think it was a Mithsubishi Pajero wich was trapped, or similar, can´t remind the model but I know it was a very good off-road car, not any of the new SUVs wich are useless off-road.

Bottom line is traction is important, but weight is equally important for driving in the mud or snow

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loner
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Automotive supplier tests immersion-cooled batteries for EVs
The technology, called immersion cooling relies on coating the batteries with dielectric cooling gel, called MIVOLT, used as electrical insulation in other applications.
If it's successful, the technology could prolong battery life in electric cars and accept higher current rates while charging without overheating them, and potentially bring charge times down closer to the time it takes to refill a gas tank.
The i-CoBat immersion cooling project aims to reduce the size and cost of cooling systems to allow automakers to build denser battery packs without increasing the heat buildup.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... es-for-evs
para bellum.

izzy
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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loner wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 19:47
Automotive supplier tests immersion-cooled batteries for EVs
The technology, called immersion cooling relies on coating the batteries with dielectric cooling gel, called MIVOLT, used as electrical insulation in other applications.
If it's successful, the technology could prolong battery life in electric cars and accept higher current rates while charging without overheating them, and potentially bring charge times down closer to the time it takes to refill a gas tank.
The i-CoBat immersion cooling project aims to reduce the size and cost of cooling systems to allow automakers to build denser battery packs without increasing the heat buildup.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... es-for-evs
Thanks. Battery technology has so much momentum now doesn't it. I wish F1 and FE would encourage it by allowing more freedom to develop the ES, instead of the weight restrictions and spec supply

Jolle
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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izzy wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 20:16
loner wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 19:47
Automotive supplier tests immersion-cooled batteries for EVs
The technology, called immersion cooling relies on coating the batteries with dielectric cooling gel, called MIVOLT, used as electrical insulation in other applications.
If it's successful, the technology could prolong battery life in electric cars and accept higher current rates while charging without overheating them, and potentially bring charge times down closer to the time it takes to refill a gas tank.
The i-CoBat immersion cooling project aims to reduce the size and cost of cooling systems to allow automakers to build denser battery packs without increasing the heat buildup.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... es-for-evs
Thanks. Battery technology has so much momentum now doesn't it. I wish F1 and FE would encourage it by allowing more freedom to develop the ES, instead of the weight restrictions and spec supply
Indeed, it would be nice that that area could be open to atract more partners like A123, Excide, Samsung and LG into the F1.

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