Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Zynerji
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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I guess I'm just a "bang for the buck" kind of guy.

I'd easily take the top C8 ZR1 package @ 125k$ over the Maserati, as the name is not worth double the money to me.

With 900hp Hybrid, AWD, MR layout, and the often overlooked refinement of the Nav/Audio/Control menu experience, it is a no-brainer to me. Especially with the convenience of 5000 dealerships nationwide for servicing.

I think its going to pull alot more customers from these other vehicles than people believe. (I've recently sold enough AMD@$94 to place my pre-order for the 2023 ZR1, so I'm actually putting my money where my mouth is.) JaF, please pick up this Maserati, and we can compare.
Last edited by Zynerji on Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mudflap
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Are you going to keep it in the same place as those white papers you have published ?

Or maybe you should just use the money to finish your 3D printed engine block.
nah pop no style

Zynerji
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Mudflap wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pm
Are you going to keep it in the same place as those white papers you have published ?

Or maybe you should just use the money to finish your 3D printed engine block.

FYI, the 3d printer is currently doing 2d-ish circuit boards for power systems for a design house in California, as it works fine, but there is a physical limitation on speed, so it simply takes too long to build anything large.

And the white paper for the block chain is now under contract as a business management software spin-off.

I'm glad you are keeping up with my posts, as I've kept the actual commercialization of them to myself.

Wait until you see the ceramic/liquid battery tech that I've been working on with Wayne Pickette...😏

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Mudflap
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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It's unlikely I'll be able to keep up since I'm due to fly to Mars in a space shuttle I've built in my garage.
nah pop no style

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Mudflap wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:53 pm
It's unlikely I'll be able to keep up since I'm due to fly to Mars in a space shuttle I've built in my garage.
It's ok. Jealousy is a disease. I hope you get well soon!

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Mudflap
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:55 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:53 pm
It's unlikely I'll be able to keep up since I'm due to fly to Mars in a space shuttle I've built in my garage.
It's ok. Jealousy is a disease. I hope you get well soon!
No it isn't a disease, unlike pathological lying which is a recognized mental disorder.
nah pop no style

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:33 pm
I guess I'm just a "bang for the buck" kind of guy.

I'd easily take the top C8 ZR1 package @ 125k$ over the Maserati, as the name is not worth double the money to me.

With 900hp Hybrid, AWD, MR layout, and the often overlooked refinement of the Nav/Audio/Control menu experience, it is a no-brainer to me. Especially with the convenience of 5000 dealerships nationwide for servicing.

I think its going to pull alot more customers from these other vehicles than people believe. (I've recently sold enough AMD@$94 to place my pre-order for the 2023 ZR1, so I'm actually putting my money where my mouth is.) JaF, please pick up this Maserati, and we can compare.
That's cool, you prefer the Corvette and I have no doubt it'll be great fun and great value for money. I hope you have a great time with it. 8)

Your point about dealer network is a good one. In the US, the Corvette makes a lot of sense. It's a US car, built for the US market, to be sold in the US. The Maserati? Well, it isn't any other those things. Sure, they'll sell a few to silly-wealthy people who collect cars and must "the latest thing, darling". They'll be hoping to sell plenty in Europe and probably China, however, where a Corvette has no real cultural history. Chevrolet sells a few hundred Corvette per year in Europe, for example(*).

As you so perfectly demonstrate, you're not in Maserati's market even though you might be able to afford one. The people they sell to will see the Maserati name as being more impressive than the Corvette name. They're selling an Italian exotic, not an American muscle car, as I've previously mentioned. "What do you drive?", "Oh, I just picked up the new Maserati MC20" sounds much more impressive than "Oh, I recently bought a Corvette." At least, in those circles it will.

Me? I'm not buying either. I'm a Range Rover man...you can't pull a horse trailer with either a Corvette or a MC20. 8)



(*) Looking at the figures further, Maserati sells about 12,000 units per year in the US (that's across all of their models). 18,000 Corvettes were sold in the US in 2019. In Europe, Chevrolet sold 557 Corvettes in 2018. If Maserati can sell 500 MC20s in the US each year, on top of the rest of the models, then they'll probably be quite happy.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Mudflap wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:58 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:55 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:53 pm
It's unlikely I'll be able to keep up since I'm due to fly to Mars in a space shuttle I've built in my garage.
It's ok. Jealousy is a disease. I hope you get well soon!
No it isn't a disease, unlike pathological lying which is a recognized mental disorder.
🤣🤣

Ive been belittled by bigger men. You don't need to believe me for my successes to still count. Perhaps it is my fault for talking about things here that are not F1 related.

I'll refrain from it in the future.

Thanks for playing🤣
http://imgur.com/gallery/OobeYHL

C8 Cash out btw...😏😏

Fulcrum
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 am
Cold Fussion wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:55 am
With a carbon chassis and bodywork, how did they manage to get it to weigh over 1500kg?
It's less than 1500kg, not more.

As with all modern cars (except ones designed by Gordon Murray) there is a lot of added weight from luxury and safety kit.

I do wonder why Murray is the only one making truly lightweight cars. Is it just because he cares about it so much or is it because doing it is really hard and very expensive.
The thing that interests me is why no-one else, or very few, replicate the central driving position. Automatically differentiates his cars imo.

Cold Fussion
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 am
Cold Fussion wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:55 am
With a carbon chassis and bodywork, how did they manage to get it to weigh over 1500kg?
It's less than 1500kg, not more.

As with all modern cars (except ones designed by Gordon Murray) there is a lot of added weight from luxury and safety kit.

I do wonder why Murray is the only one making truly lightweight cars. Is it just because he cares about it so much or is it because doing it is really hard and very expensive.
It's quoted at 1470kg but in true Italian spirit I'm sure that's a dry weight. Either way it's the same weight as a 488 which is an aluminum chassis and a lot heavier than a Mclaren.

stevesingo
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 am

I do wonder why Murray is the only one making truly lightweight cars. Is it just because he cares about it so much or is it because doing it is really hard and very expensive.
My guess is cost. To engineer an manufacture lightweight cars cost a lot. The T.50 is what £2.3million. The type of high end manufacturing needed does not scale well in to mass production. Sure it has a crazy V12, but how much cheaper would a V6 be? Not 50% for sure. OK, it is limited production numbers, so limited economies of scale, but lets say it was a 5000 unit production run V6 version. By how much would that bring down cost. I expect it would still be in the high 6 figures maybe still 7 figures therefore not competitive against what else is available at that price point.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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stevesingo wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:11 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 am

I do wonder why Murray is the only one making truly lightweight cars. Is it just because he cares about it so much or is it because doing it is really hard and very expensive.
My guess is cost. To engineer an manufacture lightweight cars cost a lot. The T.50 is what £2.3million. The type of high end manufacturing needed does not scale well in to mass production. Sure it has a crazy V12, but how much cheaper would a V6 be? Not 50% for sure. OK, it is limited production numbers, so limited economies of scale, but lets say it was a 5000 unit production run V6 version. By how much would that bring down cost. I expect it would still be in the high 6 figures maybe still 7 figures therefore not competitive against what else is available at that price point.
And yet the McLaren F1 managed it back in the early 90s at a fraction of the price of the T.50.

F1's list price in '94 was £540,000. That's equivalent to about £1.1million today (roughly, based on average inflation figures).

I can't help thinking that people are being taken for a ride (excuse the pun) with the pricing and the weight of modern hypercars.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

nzjrs
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Location: Austria

Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:27 pm
stevesingo wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:11 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 am

I do wonder why Murray is the only one making truly lightweight cars. Is it just because he cares about it so much or is it because doing it is really hard and very expensive.
My guess is cost. To engineer an manufacture lightweight cars cost a lot. The T.50 is what £2.3million. The type of high end manufacturing needed does not scale well in to mass production. Sure it has a crazy V12, but how much cheaper would a V6 be? Not 50% for sure. OK, it is limited production numbers, so limited economies of scale, but lets say it was a 5000 unit production run V6 version. By how much would that bring down cost. I expect it would still be in the high 6 figures maybe still 7 figures therefore not competitive against what else is available at that price point.
And yet the McLaren F1 managed it back in the early 90s at a fraction of the price of the T.50.

F1's list price in '94 was £540,000. That's equivalent to about £1.1million today (roughly, based on average inflation figures).

I can't help thinking that people are being taken for a ride (excuse the pun) with the pricing and the weight of modern hypercars.
Perhaps off topic, but

I would postulate that the creation of the hypercar category was a decision based on the relatively faster increase in the very-high and ultra-high net worth class compared to the rich 'millionare' class over the last 20 years.

Hypercars are priced at what the market is willing to pay for them, which increases faster than, and is disconnected from at these levels, inflation, as more ultra-rich are created now than any other point in time in history.

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:27 pm
stevesingo wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:11 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 am

I do wonder why Murray is the only one making truly lightweight cars. Is it just because he cares about it so much or is it because doing it is really hard and very expensive.
My guess is cost. To engineer an manufacture lightweight cars cost a lot. The T.50 is what £2.3million. The type of high end manufacturing needed does not scale well in to mass production. Sure it has a crazy V12, but how much cheaper would a V6 be? Not 50% for sure. OK, it is limited production numbers, so limited economies of scale, but lets say it was a 5000 unit production run V6 version. By how much would that bring down cost. I expect it would still be in the high 6 figures maybe still 7 figures therefore not competitive against what else is available at that price point.
And yet the McLaren F1 managed it back in the early 90s at a fraction of the price of the T.50.

F1's list price in '94 was £540,000. That's equivalent to about £1.1million today (roughly, based on average inflation figures).

I can't help thinking that people are being taken for a ride (excuse the pun) with the pricing and the weight of modern hypercars.
I believe this was my original intent in comparing to the C8. The extravagant inflation of the pricing on these vehicles will re-balance now that a "daily driver supercar" can be had for just $60k.

Believe it or not, most wealthy people that I have met were wealthy simply because they do not buy extravagantly priced things.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Maserati MC20 (First TJI roadcar??)

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:06 pm
I believe this was my original intent in comparing to the C8. The extravagant inflation of the pricing on these vehicles will re-balance now that a "daily driver supercar" can be had for just $60k.

Believe it or not, most wealthy people that I have met were wealthy simply because they do not buy extravagantly priced things.
In the US, yes, the C8 will give excellent bang-for-buck and doubtless sell as quickly as they can make them. How many will they sell outside the US, however?

The fact that Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, etc., make and can sell cars at the >$250,000 price point shows that there are plenty of people out there who do want a car at that price point even though cheaper options are available.

Those that buy hypercars at $2.5m each aren't simply "wealthy". Those same people don't spend $60k on a car unless it's for their kids / nanny.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"