Red Bull RB16B

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Just_a_fan
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 16:25
DiogoBrand wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 15:57


Does DRS even do anything with wings that skinny?
It does, since most of the downforce (and drag) is generated by the upper flap. However the effect is much less pronounced than on any other track. Slipstream definitely does more.
The wing as a whole makes downforce and drag. You can't say the flap makes most of the downforce - it doesn't - but it allows the whole to make the downforce. The flap does create a lot of drag, however, because its own lift resultant is mostly rearwards. The main plane's lift vector is mostly downwards with small amounts of drag. The whole wing has a resultant somewhere between the two.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Alexf1
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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"The RB16B is entering the end of it's life cycle" said Horner in Italy. Last year the final update was in Turkey (mid Nov). Earlier in the season Marko mentioned that cancellation of Singapore meant they could change the type of update they had planned for that race. Has anyone heard if Singapore (now Turkey) is going to be the last update? I hope not but Horners words make it sound plausible.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 16:25
DiogoBrand wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 15:57
tmoneyr007 wrote:
10 Sep 2021, 14:26
Does DRS even do anything with wings that skinny?
It does, since most of the downforce (and drag) is generated by the upper flap. However the effect is much less pronounced than on any other track. Slipstream definitely does more.
Due to their centre section the Red Bull’s appeared to have a greater difference between open/closed than any of the others that I noticed during the race. Is there any race data that shows the difference between each cars top speeds with/without DRS?
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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RZS10
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Wouldn't the speed gained from the start finish line to the speed trap at the end of the straight in Q be an ok-ish measure for that? Of course there's other factors which contribute to the speed change but it's an indicator at least.
data from here, speeds in kph
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf
        delta   top     line
MAZ	30,3	341,1	310,8
SCH	29,5	337,8	308,3
SAI	28,7	340,9	312,2
RUS	27,9	341,9	314,0
LEC	27,6	335,8	308,2
KUB	27,1	340,8	313,7
GIO	26,9	342,3	315,4
STR	26,5	338,4	311,9
LAT	26,0	344,6	318,6
TSU	24,5	332,1	307,6
VET	23,9	334,4	310,5
BOT	23,8	338,3	314,5
NOR	23,2	341,4	318,2
OCO	23,0	335,8	312,8
GAS	23,0	334,3	311,3
HAM	22,9	338,5	315,6
RIC	22,0	340,2	318,2
ALO	21,3	339,9	318,6
VER	18,8	334,6	315,8
PER	18,4	336,4	318,0
They gained (by far) the least.

Other than that it would be hard get reliable data where they were running with opened DRS without a slipstream, closed DRS with no slipstream is easier - that is if one could get the data in the first place.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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RZS10 wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 21:09
Wouldn't the speed gained from the start finish line to the speed trap at the end of the straight in Q be an ok-ish measure for that? Of course there's other factors which contribute to the speed change but it's an indicator at least.
data from here, speeds in kph
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf
        delta   top     line
MAZ	30,3	341,1	310,8
SCH	29,5	337,8	308,3
SAI	28,7	340,9	312,2
RUS	27,9	341,9	314,0
LEC	27,6	335,8	308,2
KUB	27,1	340,8	313,7
GIO	26,9	342,3	315,4
STR	26,5	338,4	311,9
LAT	26,0	344,6	318,6
TSU	24,5	332,1	307,6
VET	23,9	334,4	310,5
BOT	23,8	338,3	314,5
NOR	23,2	341,4	318,2
OCO	23,0	335,8	312,8
GAS	23,0	334,3	311,3
HAM	22,9	338,5	315,6
RIC	22,0	340,2	318,2
ALO	21,3	339,9	318,6
VER	18,8	334,6	315,8
PER	18,4	336,4	318,0
They gained (by far) the least.

Other than that it would be hard get reliable data where they were running with opened DRS without a slipstream, closed DRS with no slipstream is easier - that is if one could get the data in the first place.
Thank you, that is great data, and very interesting! All of the cars with the highest top speeds are Ferrari powered!
For all of the talk of the Mercedes ‘clipping’ on the main straight they to have a very decent top speed (just not as good as McLaren achieved - which played out poorly from them in the race(s), maybe they didn’t consider McLaren to be a threat and engineered their set-up around only having to beat Red Bull?)

It makes me wonder what the purpose/benefit of the unusual rear wing set-up on the Red Bulls is. Using my eyeball CFD (😂🤦‍♂️), with the wing in its ‘normal’ configuration it appears to have low camber, but a very deep shape. With the DRS activated the main-plane goes to negative camber, but achieves a larger gap (and, therefore, more drag reduction?) than would be achieved with a more ‘standard’ wing profile.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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diffuser
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Stu wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 10:45
RZS10 wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 21:09
Wouldn't the speed gained from the start finish line to the speed trap at the end of the straight in Q be an ok-ish measure for that? Of course there's other factors which contribute to the speed change but it's an indicator at least.
data from here, speeds in kph
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf
        delta   top     line
MAZ	30,3	341,1	310,8
SCH	29,5	337,8	308,3
SAI	28,7	340,9	312,2
RUS	27,9	341,9	314,0
LEC	27,6	335,8	308,2
KUB	27,1	340,8	313,7
GIO	26,9	342,3	315,4
STR	26,5	338,4	311,9
LAT	26,0	344,6	318,6
TSU	24,5	332,1	307,6
VET	23,9	334,4	310,5
BOT	23,8	338,3	314,5
NOR	23,2	341,4	318,2
OCO	23,0	335,8	312,8
GAS	23,0	334,3	311,3
HAM	22,9	338,5	315,6
RIC	22,0	340,2	318,2
ALO	21,3	339,9	318,6
VER	18,8	334,6	315,8
PER	18,4	336,4	318,0
They gained (by far) the least.

Other than that it would be hard get reliable data where they were running with opened DRS without a slipstream, closed DRS with no slipstream is easier - that is if one could get the data in the first place.
Thank you, that is great data, and very interesting! All of the cars with the highest top speeds are Ferrari powered!
For all of the talk of the Mercedes ‘clipping’ on the main straight they to have a very decent top speed (just not as good as McLaren achieved - which played out poorly from them in the race(s), maybe they didn’t consider McLaren to be a threat and engineered their set-up around only having to beat Red Bull?)

It makes me wonder what the purpose/benefit of the unusual rear wing set-up on the Red Bulls is. Using my eyeball CFD (😂🤦‍♂️), with the wing in its ‘normal’ configuration it appears to have low camber, but a very deep shape. With the DRS activated the main-plane goes to negative camber, but achieves a larger gap (and, therefore, more drag reduction?) than would be achieved with a more ‘standard’ wing profile.
Higher speed at the finish line generally means that car is running more DF.

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Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Sochi
Image

Image
Via @AlbertFabrega
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Compared to Monza that thing is a barn door, maybe they got their highest downforce rear wing working now. That's good news.
Saishū kōnā

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etusch
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Do you mean they released all the horses ?

Just_a_fan
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Well they need downforce at Sochi - yes the straight is long but there are enough twisty bits that downforce improves lap time more than the drag wrecks the lap time.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Is the hollow section at the rear of the nose (above the cape) fed by the open sections in the nose? Would this produce a ‘jet’ of fast flowing air right on top of the tea-tray?
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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jjn9128
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Stu wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 21:41
Is the hollow section at the rear of the nose (above the cape) fed by the open sections in the nose? Would this produce a ‘jet’ of fast flowing air right on top of the tea-tray?
I don't know about a jet, the outlet is bigger than the inlet so it would slow down, but getting flowing air there yes. Rather than having a fish tail type deal where you get low pressure and boundary layer thickening.
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"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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west52keep64
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Image

Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Predictably, Max took out some rear wing.
Image

Bodes well if dry, everyone on the grid went barn door.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Sevach wrote:
25 Sep 2021, 23:50
Predictably, Max took out some rear wing.
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ing-1.webp

Bodes well if dry, everyone on the grid went barn door.
I wonder when the other teams noticed, MV only completed an out lap….
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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