Alpine A521

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Alpine A521

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XRayF1 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:59 am
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:32 am
radosav wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:53 pm
Updates coming in Imola.
https://m.motorsport-total.com/formel-1 ... n-21032814
Can anybody give us a good translation of this article, I would appreciate being able to study it. Does it quote budkowski directly?
Thanks
"We are in a group with McLaren, Ferrari, AlphaTauri, Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo are not far away either," says Alpine team boss Marcin Budkowski. That's why his team wants to step up to the plate as early as the second race of the 2021 Formula One season and use a first update for the A521, and a "pretty big update", as Budkowski describes it.

He goes on saying, "There will be some new parts and therefore more power on the car. And then in the further races we will get more new parts."

Alpine is focusing mainly on the "side edge of the underbody and the diffuser," Budkowski explains. "We worked on that in testing and again on the race weekend. That will continue in the coming races, even with other teams. These areas will change."

One of Alpine's weak points: high heat
The team also wants to find out why it is not as fast in high heat as in cooler temperatures. This phenomenon was evident in the morning and evening sessions in Bahrain, he said. "Our homework is therefore to find out why we are less strong when it is hot," says Budkowski.

After all, he fears, "That could become a problem in the summer months." But where exactly the problem is, he says, he does not yet know. "To be honest: I don't have all the answers yet," says the Alpine team boss of Fernando Alonso and Esteban Ocon. He adds, "And even if I did, I wouldn't spill the beans."

What Budkowski does say, however, is what Alpine's ambition is going into its first season under a new name: "Our aim, of course, is to be at the top [of the midfield] rather than at the bottom."

"At the moment we are somewhere in the middle, missing a few tenths to be at the front. But by the next race it could be different because every team is developing the car a bit, although not as intensively this year. So the midfield should be very competitive."
Good Lad, thanks
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

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Thunder
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Re: Alpine A521

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Some OT Posts have been moved to the team Thread again. Please stay on Topic Guys or i'll just consider deleting everything OT.

As a reminder, this was me on Page 1:

This is the Alpine A521 offical car thread.

Please discuss ONLY technical items of this car, and refrain from speculation.

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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Still trying to understand the 2021 cooling changes :P

It looks like the 2021 sidepod cooling ensemble (radiator + intercooler) has a more rounded shape, so the 2020 one has a straighter outer edge and a more rectangular shape
The drawing depicts the top view : P
So the 2021 sidepod cooling surface isnt necessarily smaller, it's primarily a different shape IMO
Image
motorsport.com - nextgen-auto.com
Image

It's like the difference between the 2019 and the 2019 cooling, where the 2019 intercooler looked more rectangular than the 2018 one
https://i.imgur.com/c1tQ3jB.jpg

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diffuser
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Re: Alpine A521

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I've searched, unsuccessfully, for better pictures of the 521 without the PU shroud. Think we need a picture from the side. The shot we have now is too much from the front.

Tooooom
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Re: Alpine A521

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Blackout wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:51 pm
Still trying to understand the 2021 cooling changes :P

It looks like the 2021 sidepod cooling ensemble (radiator + intercooler) has a more rounded shape, so the 2020 one has a straighter outer edge and a more rectangular shape
The drawing depicts the top view : P
So the 2021 sidepod cooling surface isnt necessarily smaller, it's primarily a different shape IMO
https://i.imgur.com/binqsnb.jpg
motorsport.com - nextgen-auto.com
https://i.imgur.com/iHmgz6O.jpg

It's like the difference between the 2019 and the 2019 cooling, where the 2019 intercooler looked more rectangular than the 2018 one
https://i.imgur.com/c1tQ3jB.jpg
The sidepod width (white separator on your drawing) really looked a lot shorter than on the rs20. Maybe it looks like it because they removed some of the vertical strakes on the side.

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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Tooooom wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:09 pm
The sidepod width (white separator on your drawing) really looked a lot shorter than on the rs20. Maybe it looks like it because they removed some of the vertical strakes on the side.
It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
Image
Image

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mclaren111
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Re: Alpine A521

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JordanMugen
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Re: Alpine A521

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Blackout wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:10 am
It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg
What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!? :shock:

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diffuser
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Re: Alpine A521

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:05 pm
Blackout wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:10 am
It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg
What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!? :shock:
I think they combined the 2. They kept the downwash and added the undercut back in. You'll notice they even added a flaring to the halo in 2021 to help downwash.

ReoPTy
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Re: Alpine A521

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:05 pm
Blackout wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:10 am
It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg
What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!? :shock:
Totally agree , they look like they have no idea about where to improve , CoG wins over aero each time !

PhillipM
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Re: Alpine A521

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No it doesn't. Aero is king in F1. That's why suspension kinematics are compromised as hell for a few percent more downforce.

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:05 pm
Blackout wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:10 am
It's because the RS20 has a different kind of sideopods compared to the A521 or RS.19. It has RB-style sidepods where the widest section of the sidepod bottom is elongated or even swept backwards, compared to 'classic' undercut sidepods, like in this RB-13/RS.19 (exaggerated) floor comparison
https://i.imgur.com/8rQXCRI.png
https://i.imgur.com/l5qUNfg.jpg
What is the benefit of reverting to the previous design?

It seems very strange for Alpine to choose the classical undercut, when nearly every single other team has chosen the overcut downwash sidepods!? :shock:
They tested and compared both sidepod styles for sure.
Maybe their 2020 sidepods, the Renault version of those sidepods*, have reached their development limits and arent very suitable to the 2021 smaller floor...
Maybe the team found out that adding more undercut was easier and less costly for them than to try to slim down their 2020 'RB-style' sidepods, to recover the lost performance...

IMO the last Enstone-Viry projects are very cost-driven, more than their main opponents. They clearly wanna spend the least amount of ressources on these cars and focus on 2022.
That's why many parts are carryovers and are quite old. Covid and the freeze have exacerbated this.

*The Renault 2020 version is a bit 'different' and less slender than others because some features of their PU and the packaging prevent them from having an aggressive downwash shape, and from tapering the top and the sides of their sidepod bodywork (aft the radiator) like others IMO
viewtopic.php?p=959354#p959354
viewtopic.php?p=958931#p958931

AFAIK this is the last team with bulky exhaust manifolds.
Even Ferrari, which has no split, has shrinkwrapped exhaust manifolds (at the expense of some power?)

Motorsport.com - skysports f1
Image

Tooooom
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Re: Alpine A521

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Could you quickly give a primer on the relationship between engine structure and the one of the exhaust manifold? And why does the A521 can’t then have them smaller?

ReoPTy
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Re: Alpine A521

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IMO the last Enstone-Viry projects are very cost-driven, more than their main opponents. They clearly wanna spend the least amount of ressources on these cars and focus on 2022.
That's why many parts are carryovers and are quite old. Covid and the freeze have exacerbated this.
Every F1 project is cost driven, and teams turned to 2022 , anyway other teams didn't suffer as renault , and lesser budget ones! Alpine has quite difficult times to cope with, especially over aero as a whole !

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diffuser
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Re: Alpine A521

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Tooooom wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:59 pm
Could you quickly give a primer on the relationship between engine structure and the one of the exhaust manifold? And why does the A521 can’t then have them smaller?
I think it's what blackout said. It isn't a can't it's they haven't invested the time and money.

I mean if they would have brought the 2022 PU with a front compressor in this year and they could have done whatever.

Exhausts are tuned to specific lengths but they don't have to be on the side of the ICE.

RBR tuck them in under the ICE.