Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[wunderkind]

The big issue is: what are we going to see from RedBull? Jaw dropping pullrod front suspension this year? I´m not giving up on this .Newey will show us a new front suspension ...

I also think we will see some innovations on the front-end of the car. We really haven't seen anything exciting on this part of the F1 car since the rabbit bunny ear wings on the BAR Honda's nose cone and the alleged F-duct equipped front wing being tested on the Mercedes W02. We haven't seen any innovative mechanical device since the banning of Renault's J-damper or McLaren's inerter. I think pull-rod suspensions for the front-end might be a possibility given the lower height of the front bulkhead and nose section (but correct me if I'm wrong).

Regarding the alleged F-duct eqipped front wing being tested by Mercedes right now. I wonder how such compact system works at low speeds, if at all. The air through the opening on the tip of the nose cone, down the front wing uprights, and through to the outlets on the main plane on either side of the front wing. I don't know. Maybe the device works as an additional 'virtual' plane (or an airflow conditioner) on the front wing and it only works for medium and high speed bends and corners.

[aleks_ader]

The big issue is: what are we going to see from RedBull? Jaw dropping pullrod front suspension this year? I´m not giving up on this .Newey will show us a new front suspension ...

I think pull-rod suspensions for the front-end might be a possibility given the lower height of the front bulkhead and nose section (but correct me if I'm wrong).

Hmm but dont forget on this:



There are limitations and i mean that solution will be useless! Better is spend moneny in some other solutions maybe this: LINK

[marcush.]

with Newey of REDBULL talking of exciting new car ,Key of Sauber expecting new ideas in car design due to the stability of regs and amassed data froma year with Pirelli ,Ferrari already claiming to come up with a spectacular car and finally Mclaren seemingly doing their own thing anyways it seems more than likely MGP needs to really dig deep in themselves and find the hot new technology that will make the difference in 2012.
So will it make sense to dig deeper into Exhaust layouts when regs have been tightened up or is it more useful to step back and look at the whole picture trying to figure out possibilities to gain df and reduce drag somewhere else..

I think a main point to consider is reliability and serviceability .MGP has suffered big time again with wheels separating from the car ,and they had too many mechanical glitches triggered by human errors.These alone could not have raised them to third in the standings but you cannot afford to not have your equipment at or near 100% in Qualy or race .
The work done with wheel integrated wheelnuts is hinting they have pinpointed these areas of potential gains but sadly it was not enough to get them to zero fault...so the analysis or action taken was not godd enough.

[Vasco]

We haven't seen any innovative mechanical device since the banning of Renault's J-damper or McLaren's inerter.

I believe that with Renault it was the mass damper (which was later deemed illegal by the FIA). Mclaren used the Inerter or "J-Damper":
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/stories/2008/McLaren/

Back on topic, I think every team will have their own interpretation and attempted exploitation of the rules, some more aggressive than others. What is more important, I think, is for MGP to focus more on the long term. Things like their wind tunnel data correlation, reliability and serviceability (as marcush pointed out), simulators... should take higher priority that coming up with 1 single idea which proves to be great for the first few months after which all the other teams would have copied the concept. Look at Mclaren, they managed to ditch their own octopus exhaust and switch to RBR style at the first race of the year. This high development rate is only because of the accuracy and faith in their simulators, CFD etc.

[Richard]

They need a stable baseline without gimmicks. The short wheel base this year has been too much of a distraction and is also irreversible (like Renault's FEE)

[marcush.]

They need a stable baseline without gimmicks. The short wheel base this year have been was too much of a distraction and is also irreversible (like Renault's FEE)

In my book as soon as you conclude :-we have a basic shortcoming in our concept - there is absolutely no way to get into a frame of thought -we can beat the others .
It´s like a blackage you fullfill just what you have figuered out subconciously.

To me the basic pieces have to be placed correctly and that is :how can we return into the winner circle as quickly as possible.
I´m pretty sure both Rosberg and Schumacher would have happily sacrificed ALL their points scored until now knowing they have competitive machinery in their hands for the final three races.
Mind you ..Zetsche would have as well..
So it´s like always in life:don´t compromise too much but take the necessary decisions as quickly as possible AFTER you have the complete picture .Again they
did a lot but not enough this year to make serious inroads into the top 6.
To me it is very much debatable if they would score any different had they just left the car as it was after Barcelona and had just fiddled around with setup and instead concentreted on a BIG upgrade aimed already at 2012.
Fact is W03 needs to perform from the word go .So if they decided to sideline the W02 base package they will again start the tests having no real baseline and need to establish that as a first step.
To me a team aiming for the top and nothing else has all reason to drop a concept very early and prepare for the next assault as early as possible when things look as bleak as they did for MGP last winter.

[Richard]

if they decided to sideline the W02 base package they will again start the tests having no real baseline and need to establish that as a first step.

+1 This is their biggest issue, they have to start again from a blank sheet in 2012 because they have little to carry over from this year.

[wunderkind]

They need a stable baseline without gimmicks. The short wheel base this year have been was too much of a distraction and is also irreversible (like Renault's FEE)

Yes, I think Mercedes just went down the wrong road with the short wheelbase design and there was not a whole they could have done to extricate themselves. The late adoption of the Red Bull style exhausts was probably due to the lack of resources and also the team took a long time to find out what was wrong with the car. In retrospect, the concept was wrong and the wind tunnel probably gave them wrong values. I think bringing Geoff Willis back to the fold will definitely improve things. After all, the wind tunnel was made to Willis' specification back in the BAR Honda days.

Vasco, thanks for the correction.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I'm wondering with the need for a more aerodynamic and compact rear end(coke bottle shaped), will mercedes gamble on a Williams style gearbox? They have a good reputation in this area and i think with the ebd ban this could be an area all front runners will be looking at.

[marcush.]

You would not introduce "gimmicks" to your F1 design would you? MGPs technical leaders really thought they had a valid concept with W01 noe and Airbox design and this year with the SWB midship exhaust double radiator concept.
Who knows ,had they adopted the RBR style KERS battery position W02 could have been the car of the year as clearly the area behind the driver is what is just blocking too much robbing them overall downforce potential.
So even the bad things will teach you something.To me RedBull should have a hard time improving on what they already have without carving entirely new routes with the potential to lose the plot ..

All teams will have looked into the williams layout at least till april last year as you would need a considerable leadtime to change your philosophy completely and approve the technical solutions.If we do not see it on other cars ,then williams has possibly drawn the wrong conclusions from their evaluation..

[Richard]

If we do not see it on other cars ,then williams has possibly drawn the wrong conclusions from their evaluation..

Not sure about that one. It does not mean it is a bad idea if other cars do not adopt it. It could be that other teams believe they would get better returns by focussing their efforts elsewhere. In that case it would still make sense for Williams to stick with it because it might give some benefit and they've already spent the cash developing it.

[dren]

If we do not see it on other cars ,then williams has possibly drawn the wrong conclusions from their evaluation..

Not sure about that one. It does not mean it is a bad idea if other cars do not adopt it. It could be that other teams believe they would get better returns by focussing their efforts elsewhere. In that case it would still make sense for Williams to stick with it because it might give some benefit and they've already spent the cash developing it.

Williams have had a hell of a time with reliabilty this year. I don't see many teams, if any, coming up with a Williams style gearbox. Maybe a few years down the road.

[dren]

if they decided to sideline the W02 base package they will again start the tests having no real baseline and need to establish that as a first step.

+1 This is their biggest issue, they have to start again from a blank sheet in 2012 because they have little to carry over from this year.

I think a lot of the car will carry over. They will stretch the wheelbase a bit, slap on a new exhaust position, and that will be about it. I read somewhere they have fitted a single radiator instead of the dual set-up (don't know if that's true).

The front and rear wings will return, the internal systems will stay similar. I'm curious if they will retain the hydraulic coupled suspension.

The W03 will likely be a stretched evolution of the W02.

[beelsebob]

Williams have had a hell of a time with reliabilty this year. I don't see many teams, if any, coming up with a Williams style gearbox. Maybe a few years down the road.

McLaren are really the only team I can see doing this, and only because I can imagine they'd be working on their gearbox before seeing williams's – theirs is one of the biggest and least reliable in the field.

[Holm86]

Williams have had a hell of a time with reliabilty this year. I don't see many teams, if any, coming up with a Williams style gearbox. Maybe a few years down the road.

McLaren are really the only team I can see doing this, and only because I can imagine they'd be working on their gearbox before seeing williams's – theirs is one of the biggest and least reliable in the field.

I dont remember that McLaren have had alot of DNF's this year because of faulty gearbox??

But i think you are right that McLaren will develop Williams style gearbox for next year.