Marussia MR01 Cosworth

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FrukostScones
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Schulteiss wrote:
Florio wrote:When you've got seconds instead of tenths to find, packing a KERS unit inside the car isn't going to be easy. Even the best struggle with KERS so I think it's a wise decision.
There is reason in that. A KERS unit is worth .4-.6s/ lap. Its not worth throwing money at it, until it becomes a decisive factor for the car/team in achieving a specific goal.
and?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

ESPImperium
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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The team can better spend €3.5m on the car and gain aero performance.

Yes there is at least 4 tenths that come from KERS, but when there are at least 2 seconds to be found i know where id spend the money if i were a team principle.

Considering that KERS could provide 20% of that performance, id rather have a car that was strong on the fundementals of aerodynamics and mechanichal grip, as well as relyably, then id probably bolt on KERS as then it would have a much more defined and better performance increase.

Leaving KERS off is the right decision.

Personally, i think they should be aimint to be at the end of 2012 where Team Lotus/Caterham were at the end of last year or posibly a little closer, about a second shy of the mid pack, then bolt on KERS, and develop the 2012 car into 2013 and be happy, then they will be able to join the mid pack and mix it with Caterham and Williams.

Mr.S
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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If Kers provides 4 tenths then over a 60 Lap Race that is 24 seconds. Huge gain.


Also Kers will help in overtaking & defending from overtaking. If they somehow fall behind HRT then they will find it hard to overtake on the straights. Also Starts is a huge issue. HRT can make up places with KERS at the start.

I dont see Marussia taking any step forward. Both Marussia & HRT are a jokes anyway & I hope they get bankrupt & we have some other teams to get their position.

czt
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Mr.S wrote:If Kers provides 4 tenths then over a 60 Lap Race that is 24 seconds. Huge gain.
If investment in aero provides 1 second per lap that is a bigger gain! I agree with the posters above, the investment in aero is a much better place for Marussia to put their money right now.

snorri788
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Getting a handle on set up and provide massive gains as well. When HRT brought in Christian Klien they made up to 0.5 of a second through set up gains during free practice. For a new team having no KERS can be a good thing; work on set up rather than fixing KERS gremlins. Plus, is there a KERS system that works with the Cosworth engine? AFAIK no-one that uses Cossehs use KERS.

Mr.S
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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With their resouces forget 1 Second. I mean what will 3 Million do??? That is nothing. A pittiance. 1 Full Second are you kidding me??

They can NEVER find 1 Second with 3 Million. NEVER.

Anyways Remember what Lotus said (Green present Carteham) last year?? They said the same,that they need seconds & not tenths. They could not make it to the Mid-field without KERS & have got it this time.

The Gain in Kers is Huge. Starts,Overtaking & hanging on to a position. It's much bigger than just 4 tenths. And it is Very Cheap. For only 3/4 Million It's a Steal.

Marussia are 1 Year Behind Carteham. Seems so. The whole Grid Has Kers. Even HRT

EDIT - Read in the HRT thread Williams Kers Cost 2.5 Million. Imagine 2.5 Million & even 3 tenths on an average is a HUGE STEAL. They will never Get Big Aero Benefits for that little money

beelsebob
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Mr.S wrote:With their resouces forget 1 Second. I mean what will 3 Million do??? That is nothing. A pittiance. 1 Full Second are you kidding me??

They can NEVER find 1 Second with 3 Million. NEVER.
You're missing that gaining time in F1 is an exponential cost scale. When you're lapping at 3 minutes a lap, it's trivially easy to gain 1 second, when you're lapping at the pace of the front runners it costs many many millions even to find a tenth. When you're on the cusp of 107%, 3 million to find a second, is entirely reasonable.
Anyways Remember what Lotus said (Green present Carteham) last year?? They said the same,that they need seconds & not tenths. They could not make it to the Mid-field without KERS & have got it this time.
Yes, but Caterham are higher up the grid, so it costs more.
The Gain in Kers is Huge. Starts,Overtaking & hanging on to a position. It's much bigger than just 4 tenths. And it is Very Cheap. For only 3/4 Million It's a Steal.
It's not cheap at all – remember, you have to cool it, and resculpt the aero to fit it in. In doing so, you quite possibly make your aero worse.

shelly
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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With 3000000$ you can do a big amount of aero work, which is worth more than one second, especially starting form where marussia are now.

@mrS: why do you write that? what reference do you have in syaing what you are saying?
twitter: @armchair_aero

Mr.S
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Seriously I cant believe you guys are even saying they can find 1 Full Second in Aero with 3M. I would have understood if this meant 30 Million. Huge Manpower increase,new technicians,Simulator,More hours at the Wind Tunnel, More R & D.

But 3 Million & 1 Full Second. Yea right. I am putting it on record MR is going 2 be a Solid 2-2.5 Seconds behind CT. Last year they were 1-1.5 Seconds back.

Not only that they will be atleast 4-5 Seconds off the Leader. Ideally they should gain 1.5 Seconds compared to the leader because they had no EBD & all the top cars would loose around 1-1.5 seconds off. Plus they are "LOOKING" at making up Seconds this time.

I am predicting a 4-5 Second gap. MR are going to Suck Again.

beelsebob
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Mr.S wrote:Seriously I cant believe you guys are even saying they can find 1 Full Second in Aero with 3M. I would have understood if this meant 30 Million. Huge Manpower increase,new technicians,Simulator,More hours at the Wind Tunnel, More R & D.

But 3 Million & 1 Full Second.
You're talking about paying 30 more decent engineers on your aero team for that cash. That alone, when you're at the back of the grid is worth everything. Hell, I'd be surprised if they had 30 people on their aero team atm, what you're suggesting is that they drop their entire aero team, and replace them with a kers unit.

shelly
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Really for finding 1 second in aero you do not need 30 engineers. Just a couple of engineers, a couple of cad designers, and a bunch of fitters. All the rest you spend in hiring the wt and building the parts of the wt model (if you already have a wt model to start from, with instrumentation)
twitter: @armchair_aero

Richard
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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Yup, those teams at the back need to focus on getting the fundamentals as effective as possible, that's where they'll get the most time. There will be things the leading teams take for granted that the back teams have yet to get to grips with.

One well known example was the Lotus power steering problems last year. Sorting that out would gain a lot more lap time than trying to engineer a KERS unit. The irony is that Caterham will have KERS next year, I hope they sorted out the power steering first ...


For what its worth, I'd say rather than developing more technical wizardry sometimes it is more effective to better exploit what you already have. The back teams would gain a lot of time by with a couple of astute people to provide better operations leadership.

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pocketmoon
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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shelly wrote:Really for finding 1 second in aero you do not need 30 engineers. Just a couple of engineers, a couple of cad designers, and a bunch of fitters. All the rest you spend in hiring the wt and building the parts of the wt model (if you already have a wt model to start from, with instrumentation)
If they run a wind tunnel 24hrs/7days like Mercedes do then that 3x for the shifts alone. Each iterative improvement in performance will cost more and to compete with big boys requires a huge investment in people as well as infrastructure.

Factory tour of MGP last year was jaw-droppingly epic. Entire teams of engineers just doing stress and failure analysis with equipment that would put some A&E departments to shame :)

For the smaller teams the way forward has to be resource sharing with the big boys (as we're started to see more of last year)

Rob

shelly
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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We are not talking about their full aero program, but about how to spend some money in aero. No way that's enough for competing at the top in a short tiemframe
twitter: @armchair_aero

beelsebob
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Re: Marussia MR-03 Cosworth

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shelly wrote:Really for finding 1 second in aero you do not need 30 engineers. Just a couple of engineers, a couple of cad designers, and a bunch of fitters. All the rest you spend in hiring the wt and building the parts of the wt model (if you already have a wt model to start from, with instrumentation)
Right, what I was trying to point out was that that 3 million can pay for a lot of guys working on your car, and to dump off 30 engineering staff to get a crappy KERS unit is absolute suicide for these teams, not necessarily that you'd chose to use it to hire 30 guys.