Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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GrizzleBoy
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by GrizzleBoy » Thu May 03, 2012 10:20 am

Is that black piping on the inside of the right endplate going down to the beam wing?

Edit: from other angles it seems they have black cables taped down with black tape on the beam wing so it's probably cabling.
Last edited by GrizzleBoy on Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Huntresa
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by Huntresa » Thu May 03, 2012 10:21 am

Mazdaboy wrote:I think they're tested the double DRS Look at the rear wing endplate. It's so much wider.

Image

You do realize there is no space for a hole? I mean where the hole should be there is fins.

ianwit
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by ianwit » Thu May 03, 2012 10:31 am

Huntresa wrote: You do realize there is no space for a hole? I mean where the hole should be there is fins.
Agreed, no room for intake hole.
Became a McLaren fan in the late 70's when I ended up laminating their Kevlar nosecones.

beelsebob
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by beelsebob » Thu May 03, 2012 11:14 am

The hole could be placed on the main plane of the wing, behind the DRS flap. Though I doubt it is.

Huntresa
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by Huntresa » Thu May 03, 2012 11:25 am

beelsebob wrote:The hole could be placed on the main plane of the wing, behind the DRS flap. Though I doubt it is.

Also prob to small a hole. The wing they are running ha very small upper flap that opens and it barely overlaps to thw main plane.

KeiKo403
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by KeiKo403 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:28 am

Mazdaboy wrote:I think they're tested the double DRS Look at the rear wing endplate. It's so much wider.

Image
New wheelnut design???

SiLo
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by SiLo » Thu May 03, 2012 12:23 pm

cccag wrote:looks like slots here ....the tarmac is visible

Image

http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 040.66.jpg
Either that, or they are gurneys? Can't really tell. Would it be possible that it is one slot that come back on itself, from the edge of the diffuser?
Felipe Baby!

Owen.C93
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by Owen.C93 » Thu May 03, 2012 12:42 pm

Looks like the normal cables We see on testing days. Nothing looks like tarmac. Mclaren team members got 3 hours sleep last night, no new parts visible so what have they been up to?!
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

ianwit
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by ianwit » Thu May 03, 2012 12:55 pm

SiLo wrote: Either that, or they are gurneys? Can't really tell. Would it be possible that it is one slot that come back on itself, from the edge of the diffuser?
Yes they're gurneys what looks like gravel through a slot is rain drops in front of the gurney I reckon.
Became a McLaren fan in the late 70's when I ended up laminating their Kevlar nosecones.

hardingfv32
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by hardingfv32 » Thu May 03, 2012 5:24 pm

Why bother with with the end plate above the main element? Is it requiered by the rules?

Why doesn't the end plate seal the bottom of the second element/flap? I though that an end plate on the low pressure side of a wing was always a benefit.

Brian

Image

beelsebob
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by beelsebob » Thu May 03, 2012 6:12 pm

hardingfv32 wrote:Why bother with with the end plate above the main element? Is it requiered by the rules?

Why doesn't the end plate seal the bottom of the second element/flap? I though that an end plate on the low pressure side of a wing was always a benefit.
IANAA, but... my bet would be that the luvres encourage the air flow out of the side of the wing to be upwards, and create an extension of the wing to the sides, wheras if you had no end plate air would spill off the high preasure side of the wing sideways (rather than upwards and sideways).

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by GrizzleBoy » Thu May 03, 2012 8:30 pm

There are no gurneys of slots in the floor, it's cabling for their sensors being run on the floor and covered with black tape.

hardingfv32
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by hardingfv32 » Fri May 04, 2012 12:13 am

beelsebob wrote:my bet would be that the luvres encourage the air flow out of the side of the wing to be upwards, and create an extension of the wing to the sides, wheras if you had no end plate air would spill off the high preasure side of the wing sideways (rather than upwards and sideways).
Not a bad thought. May I assume that these louvers in all cases provide less downforce or is there a chance of a net gain ASSUMING that the AoA is the same?

I appreciate that the louver might allow for higher AoA.

Brian

Just_a_fan
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri May 04, 2012 12:26 am

hardingfv32 wrote:Why bother with with the end plate above the main element? Is it requiered by the rules?

Why doesn't the end plate seal the bottom of the second element/flap? I though that an end plate on the low pressure side of a wing was always a benefit.

Brian
The endplates increase the downforce produced by the wing by effectively fooling the system in to thinking the wing is longer than it is. This is because the inevitable vortex produced at the wing tip reduce the downforce of the wing. It, in effect, makes the wing behave as if it were a shorter span. The endplates reverse this effect and so mean the wing produces more of its theoretical lift. We see these on airliners too in the form of vertical wingtips.

Unfortunately, the whole rear wing system still produces a big vortex at each end which creates big drag. So the teams use the louvres and the cut out behind the flap to reduce these large vortices. This will reduce the downforce but it improves the overall efficiency of the system. It's about efficiency. A more efficient system gives the teams more options.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

beelsebob
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Post by beelsebob » Fri May 04, 2012 9:03 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
hardingfv32 wrote:Why bother with with the end plate above the main element? Is it requiered by the rules?

Why doesn't the end plate seal the bottom of the second element/flap? I though that an end plate on the low pressure side of a wing was always a benefit.

Brian
The endplates increase the downforce produced by the wing by effectively fooling the system in to thinking the wing is longer than it is. This is because the inevitable vortex produced at the wing tip reduce the downforce of the wing. It, in effect, makes the wing behave as if it were a shorter span. The endplates reverse this effect and so mean the wing produces more of its theoretical lift. We see these on airliners too in the form of vertical wingtips.

Unfortunately, the whole rear wing system still produces a big vortex at each end which creates big drag. So the teams use the louvres and the cut out behind the flap to reduce these large vortices. This will reduce the downforce but it improves the overall efficiency of the system. It's about efficiency. A more efficient system gives the teams more options.
This is what Brian was referring to re the low pressure side of the wing though. The typical method of destroying the vortex is to put a vertical segment *on the low pressure side*. Hence why airliners have wing tips that point upwards.