Ferrari F2012

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:I don't know what more can be done considering the new rear end is almost completely different than what was present on the launch-spec F2012.
He knows. He was studying all of the cars yesterday getting ideas.

But yes it's a good question. What route for future updates do you think we'll take? I have a few ideas. I also think we'll see Ferrari DDRS in Canada. Marc Gene said no updates for Monaco, the next big Ferrari updates are in Canada.
i noticed when Brundle was doing his gridwalk that Tombazis was busy looking at the rear end of the Sauber. Would have enjoyed listening to an interview from him rather than these random people that Brundle tried to interview.

In terms of updates, we can probably still make refinements to the exhaust (like Red Bull has done since the beginning of the season).

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crabbia wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
He knows. He was studying all of the cars yesterday getting ideas.

But yes it's a good question. What route for future updates do you think we'll take? I have a few ideas. I also think we'll see Ferrari DDRS in Canada. Marc Gene said no updates for Monaco, the next big Ferrari updates are in Canada.
I think he was looking at the front and rear of the bulls trying to figure out why they needed front wing changes.
That picture was taken yesterday. In the two pics I posted he was looking at the Sauber. There are also other pictures of him studying the Williams yesterday.

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amouzouris
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Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:21 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

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an area they can work on is the L/D ratio of the car...not for Monaco but certainly for Canada and later races of the season..! the car has good mechanical grip due to reasons mentioned before...and there is NOTHING wrong with front pull rod! :D also they could work on the DDRS and front wing cause we know the front wing can bring some tenths here and there as it can determine how the airflow is directed!

Neno
Neno
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Teechnical wrote:How is it possible to improve rear downforce? Any examples or suggestions?
inner aero. you dont need just airflow around and under the car (sidepods, the floor), also exaust position for making downforce on rear. you need to have good inner aero, or whatever that mean.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Couple detail shots from today. There is still not even ONE clear shot of the new Ferrari rear brake duct/duct fins from the top or bottom. :evil: :evil:

Image

Image

sknguy
sknguy
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Great result at Spain. I suspect this iteration of the "Acer" duct is the one they should've started the season with. I'm not knowledgable about aero-tech but the larger/wider duct had to have been a less than effective influence on diffuser efficiency than they thought. I think that the hot air venting would normally eject a lower velocity air stream and perhaps the intent of the original exhaust location may have been meant to boost that velocity in that respect? I don't know. But maybe the higher location of the exhaust is making better use of that air stream now. More of a boundary layering now?

But right now, I still do worry about the Ferrari's tire wear rates though. Maldonado made his tire last beatifully. But then again, Alonso made his tire last well too. But although Alonso's set of tires were newer, the Ferrari fell short of optimising that apparent advantage. I suspect the Ferrari will have to deal with this until the end of the season. I hope their tire wear doesn't hamper them too much at Monaco.

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Hail22
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Noticed Ferrari stated "no major updates" however they never ruled out small upgrades/adaptations of the front suspension arm (NOT CHANGING THE SUSPENSION...).

Possibly a new set of veins on top of the side pods to aid flow to the exhaust? (Macca quick edit).
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.

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donskar
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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I suggested the need for more rear DF because Steve Matchett (SPEED TV) mentioned several times that Ferrari needed more rear DF. I have a great deal of respect for his "grease-under-the-fingernails" knowledge of F1 technology. How to get more DF? New/modified rear wing? Reshaped side pods? New rear brake ducts? Monkey seat? Diffuser? Re-re-re-located exhaust? Whatever. The team knows that Alonso can win if the car is anywhere close to competitive. We are watching a master at the height of his powers.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

kamikaze82
kamikaze82
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Ferrari has definitely taken a fair route with the exhausts (somewhat reflected by yesterday's result). Thankfully it is an original approach. but I still think that the exhausts can move a bit more inward to get rid of the bulky acer duct leftovers. I also think we should now look to work on the step of the nose to attach some airflow. Perhaps a more streamlined approach a la Lotus E20 would be enough (the current in-your-face blunt step has to be done away with).

alogoc
alogoc
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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i understand Wiliams has different exhaust to all othesrs?
not using coanda but some other efect?
THE F2012!
THE CAR THAN WON 2012 WORLD F1 CHAMPIONSHIP WHIT A TILTED ENGINE!

Crabbia
Crabbia
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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shouldnt that be for the williams thread?

if your're trying to think of why the ferrari and the wwilliams came to the fore, i was thinking about it in terms of their exhaust.

both exahuasts are "aero neutral" compared to other solutions on the grid and both flow inward, maybe this saved the rear tires in the heat?
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...

alogoc
alogoc
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crabbia wrote:shouldnt that be for the williams thread?

if your're trying to think of why the ferrari and the wwilliams came to the fore, i was thinking about it in terms of their exhaust.

both exahuasts are "aero neutral" compared to other solutions on the grid and both flow inward, maybe this saved the rear tires in the heat?

yes!i am thinking of ways to improve the F2012 so i ask about the exhaust i heard someone said something about their exhaust being different to all others!
THE F2012!
THE CAR THAN WON 2012 WORLD F1 CHAMPIONSHIP WHIT A TILTED ENGINE!

Nando
Nando
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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donskar wrote:I suggested the need for more rear DF because Steve Matchett (SPEED TV) mentioned several times that Ferrari needed more rear DF. I have a great deal of respect for his "grease-under-the-fingernails" knowledge of F1 technology. How to get more DF? New/modified rear wing? Reshaped side pods? New rear brake ducts? Monkey seat? Diffuser? Re-re-re-located exhaust? Whatever. The team knows that Alonso can win if the car is anywhere close to competitive. We are watching a master at the height of his powers.
If anyone rembers i said this in Australia by looking at their onboard laps.
It was clear the car a massive aero imbalance.

However they seem to have fixed that problem quite well. although more rear downforce is welcome of course.
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f1316
f1316
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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The fact that the original Acer duct is still not entirely removed means they can probably improve that area even more - there's still some hangover from the original design at the end of the sidepods. Surely they are going to continue down the route they're now going - since it was reasonably successfull - so if they tidy that up even more it seems likely it will improve airflow and reduce drag.

Development of that obviously points to Ferrari's radiator layout (as Gary Anderson mentions in his BBC article) and that reminds me of the engine cover part they brought to China (was it?) with the central cooling behind the driver. I'm still fascinated by the fact that that part made it to the track but not onto the track. Surely they hadn't moved the internal arrangement around enough to accomodate that cooling route at that point, so why bring it at all? Why manufactor it yet?

On a side note, I noticed a Caterham that used to have a huge cooling duct in that area now does not at all.

Richard
Richard
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Please focus on the actual features of this car.

Off topic posts above that will be moved out later today include...

- A member of the team looking competitors' cars - this is better in the team thread.

- Generic comments about how can "we" get more downforce, or "we" can make improvements to the exhaust.

ps - "We"??? is the Ferrari team really undertaking design development on this forum?