Ferrari F2012

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
beelsebob
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by beelsebob » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:10 pm

Paul wrote:Only reason for that "randomness" I can think of is high sensitivity to wind gusts. Any other theories?
Well the theory was manufacturing defects... Could it be body work flexing in ways it shouldn't, and causing the shape to change in nasty ways?

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Crucial_Xtreme » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:18 pm

Progressive cut outs on F2012. Interesting.

Image

via Khan_F1

volarchico
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by volarchico » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:35 pm

beelsebob wrote:
Paul wrote:Only reason for that "randomness" I can think of is high sensitivity to wind gusts. Any other theories?
Well the theory was manufacturing defects... Could it be body work flexing in ways it shouldn't, and causing the shape to change in nasty ways?
If you read back a few pages, that's exactly what the "insider tweets" said: body work deforming and messing up the air flow.

volarchico
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by volarchico » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:38 pm

Isak wrote:I think the velocity of the air around that hole is alot faster then the air coming out from it. I would actually assume the higher velocity air creates a bit of underpressure that sucks the air out.

I believe the evidence is there to. From my understanding it would be wiser to extend the cover all the way back to the outlet instead of having an open area of 30cm or so if they wanted to keep the higher velocity air at a higher rate, rather then it interfering with the outside air. Air usually wants to even out pressure differences rather fast, hence we can create lift and downforce from aerofoils.

I don't see air accelerating inside the sidepods either.
There IS a tube/cover that extends into the crash structure that's been postulated to exit out that opening in the back near the light. Look back a few pages and you'll see the image. It's been mentioned in passing on/off for the last week.

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Crucial_Xtreme » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:57 pm

volarchico wrote:
Isak wrote:I think the velocity of the air around that hole is alot faster then the air coming out from it. I would actually assume the higher velocity air creates a bit of underpressure that sucks the air out.

I believe the evidence is there to. From my understanding it would be wiser to extend the cover all the way back to the outlet instead of having an open area of 30cm or so if they wanted to keep the higher velocity air at a higher rate, rather then it interfering with the outside air. Air usually wants to even out pressure differences rather fast, hence we can create lift and downforce from aerofoils.

I don't see air accelerating inside the sidepods either.
There IS a tube/cover that extends into the crash structure that's been postulated to exit out that opening in the back near the light. Look back a few pages and you'll see the image. It's been mentioned in passing on/off for the last week.
Yes there is a tube above it. I asked Scarbs would this be possible and he said yes, he was thinking about what that tube was being used for today. I saw the opening the day and mentioned it, then saw MazdaBoy's pic. I mentioned it somewhere else and one person claimed it's impossible. However Scarbs is saying different. I don't know either way. But it sure is clever if so.
What's everyones technical opinion?

Image

Here's a picture from above. Right click>view image

Image

Image

beelsebob
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by beelsebob » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:59 pm

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Yes there is a tube above it. I asked Scarbs would this be possible and he said yes, he was thinking about what that tube was being used for today. I saw the opening the day and mentioned it, then saw MazdaBoy's pic. I mentioned it somewhere else and one person claimed it's impossible. However Scarbs is saying different. I don't know either way. But it sure is clever if so.
What's everyones technical opinion?
When people claim something is impossible, I always find it's useful to ask what they things stops it from being possible. I see no reason why this shouldn't work, but someone may have spied something interesting.

Pup
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Pup » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:18 pm

They had that same hole last year, too. It was discussed a bit in the MP4-26 thread. I think the tube just wasn't as obvious...

Image

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Crucial_Xtreme » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:20 pm

Pup wrote:They had that same hole last year, too. It was discussed a bit in the MP4-26 thread...
Right, although some pictures have the hole others don't. I would only point to the tube coming out from under the fairings. Whether it's blowing air or not I just thought it was an interesting concept. One worth talking about versus all the gloom & doom that's been filling up Ferrari thread.

aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by aleks_ader » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Image

Measurments are just ilustracion...
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by aleks_ader » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:35 pm

As i show on the pic above i think whith that "venturi nozle" they will kill two birds at once:

1. suck air throw starter hole (option) => some precious downforce, but there are also drag (how much, maybe enought "little" or comparable with downforce gain? Maybe is ratio drag/downforce positive to keep on the car)? In my opinion is worth that...

2. also with that created low presure accelerating flow wich go throw crash structure hole and exit under "rain" lights make "cusion"(vortex) or otherwise "kill" big vortices in that DRAGY AREA, without big help of exhaoust gases like did some others teams (Force india, Torro Rosso)...
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Crucial_Xtreme » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:11 pm

aleksandergreat wrote:As i show on the pic above i think whith that "venturi nozle" they will kill two birds at once:

1. suck air throw starter hole (option) => some precious downforce, but there are also drag (how much, maybe enought "little" or comparable with downforce gain? Maybe is ratio drag/downforce positive to keep on the car)? In my opinion is worth that...

2. also with that created low presure accelerating flow wich go throw crash structure hole and exit under "rain" lights make "cusion"(vortex) or otherwise "kill" big vortices in that DRAGY AREA, without big help of exhaoust gases like did some others teams (Force india, Torro Rosso)...
Very good picture mate. This could work. I'll be interested to see what if anything changes around this area in BCN.

Isak
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Isak » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:14 pm

Ah, yes it does seem there is a pipe/tube beneath the hole, didn't spot that.

I still don't see them gaining much velocity in the sidepods after going through the radiators and around the exhaust manifolds. But the air in the pipe might not originate from the sidepod inlets. The pipe might take it's air from the top of the airbox. Then i can very much see a higher velocity of that air exiting then the relative low-pressure area in between the rear wheels.

The gain of doing this is still a bit of a mystery for me tho. Seems like alot of drag for very little downforce.

edit; added cooling for the gearbox seems much more likely, tho even that is a bit of a stretch since surface cooling isn't all that effective without any kinds of heatsinks.

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Crucial_Xtreme » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Isak wrote:Ah, yes it does seem there is a pipe/tube beneath the hole, didn't spot that.

I still don't see them gaining much velocity in the sidepods after going through the radiators and around the exhaust manifolds. But the air in the pipe might not originate from the sidepod inlets. The pipe might take it's air from the top of the airbox. Then i can very much see a higher velocity of that air exiting then the relative low-pressure area in between the rear wheels.

The gain of doing this is still a bit of a mystery for me tho. Seems like alot of drag for very little downforce.

edit; added cooling for the gearbox seems much more likely, tho even that is a bit of a stretch since surface cooling carbonfiber isn't very effective.
I was thinking the air could come from atop the roll hoop. Although Tombazis said they placed another radiator in the rear of the car. It would depend on it's placement as to whether or not it would be getting sufficient flow and what kind of flow. Neat idea nonetheless. :))

Robbobnob
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Robbobnob » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:24 pm

to me there seems very little benefit for a aero device of that size to have a dramatic effect on the car.

I think it is a exhaust for cooling air for the rear diff
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitations, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." - Ayrton Senna

alogoc
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by alogoc » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:00 pm

"In Maranello confirmed the cause: several pieces of 'material progress' yielded to the pressure and the flow was diverted improperly"

can anyone try to explain what would this mean,i know it's not HEAT related what it is then?
THE F2012!
THE CAR THAN WON 2012 WORLD F1 CHAMPIONSHIP WHIT A TILTED ENGINE!