Red Bull RB8 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Post Reply
User avatar
gandharva
252
Joined: 06 Feb 2012, 15:19
Location: Munich

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post


User avatar
horse
6
Joined: 23 Oct 2009, 17:53
Location: Bilbao, ES
Contact:

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

shelly wrote:So this arrangement with pillar and conventional looking endplates is just a first step. I excpect new endplates to come out in next test or in melbourne
It has reduced the size of the actuator, also. Perhaps the importance of this area has increased now that diffuser blowing is banned.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

shelly
136
Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

Yes it could be. I think that you would always want a drs actuator as small as possible, and the pillar allows for that.

But if you want to have a fancy shaped endplate, or a fancy shaped beam wing, than probably it is easier to give the pillar the structural role.

My idea about blowing is that there is a lot of low pressure/downforce to exploit when you manage to accelerate a vortex along its axis, and then make this accelerated vortex flow beneath a down-facing surface.

The accelerated vortex has a much lower inner pressure because it's narrower and forced to "rotate" more quickly, for angular momentum conservation (this is called vortex stretching).

I think this acceleration of vortices can be more effective than simply blowing against a surface, which is anyway effective.

Last year ebd (and fee) expoited vortex acceleration in my opinion, by blowing inside the footplate vortex (or the low bargeboard vortex in the case of fee)

With 2012 exhausts' position, besides tip vortices from the brake ducts, a kinked beam wing (abrupt change of section in top view), a deeply cutout endplate or even a beam wing without endplates could be the generators of powerful enough vortices to be accelerated, if the velocity from the exhausts has not decayed too much.

We will see if new developments guve credit or are in contrast with this pet theory
twitter: @armchair_aero

RB7ate9
2
Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

bhallg2k wrote:Interesting. You don't often see Red Bull copying a Ferrari concept (DRS/wing pillar).
RB7ate9 wrote:I agree, I think the thinness of the letterbox betrays the fact that the volume flow rate through there is much higher and more direct than placing a hole in the front of the nose that will lose more energy by the time it gets to the cockpit.
No. Just no.
I look forward to your explanation.

hardingfv32
32
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

RB7ate9 wrote:Also, an added benefit is to add energized flow over the sidepods. Seems like a simple enough modification, I wonder why this wasn't as prevalent on 2011 cars?
More accurately, why was this not done in the last 10-20 years on any formula car?

I does not work!

Brian

tjaeger
0
Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 03:52

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

RB7ate9 wrote:
tjaeger wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Hmmm.... I do not remember seeing this before.

[img]http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4585/338v.png[img]
Any idea what it is used for? Purpose?

Could that be the exist of air collected at the slot in the hump of the front wing? Would this add any value, advantage?
Based on the pointed elliptical shape of the exhaust, this must be Newey's latest innovation to be copied by every other team :wink:
If it was Newey's should it not have a gurney on it?
Last edited by Richard on 24 Feb 2012, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed image quoted from post above
You cannot engineer out stupidity.

RB7ate9
2
Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

hardingfv32 wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:Also, an added benefit is to add energized flow over the sidepods. Seems like a simple enough modification, I wonder why this wasn't as prevalent on 2011 cars?
More accurately, why was this not done in the last 10-20 years on any formula car?

I does not work!

Brian
One explanation could be that having that disturbance wouldn't be offset with aero benefits. Perhaps even with any high-pressure build-up, the exit doesn't have enough flow to either create a smoother boundary layer, add energized air to the rear flow, or overcome the turbulence from such a sharp cut. The presence of assorted exits on the sidepods next to the cockpit during race weekends suggest a benefit, but whether or not it extends beyond simply being more effective at cooling the driver during hot days is questionable, as, at first, I had thought that this was a new development until someone pointed out that these have been on cars for years.

If only I had all the hi-rez photos, data outputs, team radio recordings, race video, and the design team with me so I could really find out the truth! :(

User avatar
Shrieker
13
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

Why would Red Bull go back to central pillar for flap actuation after all the effort? I was thinking the other day if you apply enough force, you can twist/bend the entire rear wing assembly. That surely could bring a substantial gain when the DRS is activated.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

Crucial_Xtreme
404
Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

Testing front wing. Right click>view image

Image

Image

Image

RB8 Exhaust

Image
Last edited by Crucial_Xtreme on 24 Feb 2012, 23:17, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

The rack that holds the sensors look like its CNC machined from one slab of billet aluminum..$$$$ no matter why they left FOTA.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

RB7ate9 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:
RB7ate9 wrote:I agree, I think the thinness of the letterbox betrays the fact that the volume flow rate through there is much higher and more direct than placing a hole in the front of the nose that will lose more energy by the time it gets to the cockpit.
No. Just no.
I look forward to your explanation.
The general consensus thus far has been that the stepped noses do not inflict much of a drag penalty, because of the way air flows over the top of the nose. This is borne out when you make a comparison between RB7's nose inlet and RB8's "letterbox." The "letterbox" is much, much larger, because the airflow into it is nowhere near as direct or abundant.

(Sorry for the terse rejection of your idea earlier.)

JimiJams
0
Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 08:33

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

n smikle wrote:The rack that holds the sensors look like its CNC machined from one slab of billet aluminum..$$$$ no matter why they left FOTA.
Can you further explain why this is considered a costly solution?
"Leave me alone. I know what I’m doing" - Kimi Räikkönen

Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

bhallg2k wrote: The "letterbox" is much, much larger, because the airflow into it is nowhere near as direct or abundant.
That actual hole in the letterbox doesn't appear to be that big. I recall it is limited to the same area as the nose inlet, or the ducted inlet Schumacher use last year.

I agree the surrounding ramp does seem to be shaped like a dam which would infer that you can have a relatively large disruption at that point without too much penalty.

Crucial_Xtreme
404
Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

richard_leeds wrote:
bhallg2k wrote: The "letterbox" is much, much larger, because the airflow into it is nowhere near as direct or abundant.
That actual hole in the letterbox doesn't appear to be that big. I recall it is limited to the same area as the nose inlet, or the ducted inlet Schumacher use last year.

I agree the surrounding ramp does seem to be shaped like a dam which would infer that you can have a relatively large disruption at that point without too much penalty.
I can't wait to get a picture of the RB8 bulkhead with the nose off! We will get one. Might not be until Monza, but we'll get one. :lol:

Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

Post

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:I can't wait to get a picture of the RB8 bulkhead with the nose off! We will get one. Might not be until Monza, but we'll get one. :lol:
You'll get one at FP1 on 15 March, they have to have open garage doors are race weekends. We sometimes get some good pics the day before when they are setting up.

Post Reply