Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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JDC123 wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... 33657_.jpg


Piola says the SFI car will have a step like in 2012 but not on the nose, on the body..

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/33657/ ... lla-scocca
Surely the bottom 'step' would act like the pelican nose that appeared on some of the cars this year (Most notably Lotus), designed to produce a low pressure area which helps such the car down producing downforce. Why would you then put a duct from the top of the nose down to this area? would this not produce a high pressure area under the nose which effectively produces lift?
If this design is used then yes. Putting more air under the nose MAY produce less net downforce at the front. However the problem for the last few years, especially since the banning of diffuser tunnels, then double deck diffusers, then EBD and then finally now the whole idea of exhaust blowing and the beam wing has been the lack of rear downforce. By putting more air under the nose it is easier for the designers to keep this airflow along the floor and run it over the diffuser maximising the diffuser performance. Also they use vortices around the edge of the floor to try to seal it. The more airflow they have along the edge of the floor the strong the vortex can be and the better sealing action that it can create on the floor. That is the general idea anyway.

Timstr
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Joined: 25 Jan 2004, 12:09

Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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I think the bottom step is needed for creating the necessary packaging space for the inboards (steering, suspension, hydraulics) So it's a bit of an aero penalty, but necessary to house the bits that are usually housed in that part of the bulkhead.
A larger space under the front still helps to minimize blockage towards the diffuser.

scarbs
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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The stepped chassis is an aero feature, its trying to keep hold of the 625mm high chassis allowed in recent years, while still meeting the 2014 525mm bulkhead position.

As with all development around the front of the chassis, obvious performance enhancements; Low CofG, suspension geometry etc go out of the window, such is the aero benefit to laptimes outweighing these losses.

I asked various Tech Directors about this back in Austin, its clearly legal and beneficial. This loophole will be edited out next year, with an angled slope from the bulkhead back towards the cockpit, written into the rules.

More comment in '2014 Rules'


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Blackout
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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So, to sum up;

FI did this according to piola
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So it's a kinda hybrid design
The (spirit of) the rules want this
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But the loupholes permit this
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(Where you can put a vanity panel in the pale yelow area and put something in the sharp yellow area in order to smooth up the transition... or blow some air using an S-duct like Scarbs did in his RB10 illustration ?)
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But FI wants all the advatages that each of the two designs bring; a lower COG (by placing some of the bulckhead components in the orange area) and more space under the coque...
Image

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Holm86
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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Scarbs RB10 featured a normal S-duct. Which draws air fron underneath the nose to up over the nose.

I draw a fast sketch of the S-duct which takes the air from on the top of the nose to underneath it on the previous page :-)

scarbs
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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Blackout wrote:So, to sum up;
FI did this according to piola
The rules demand the A-A bulkhead is at 525mm, but allow the rest of the raised chassis to be as high as 625mm. The step from A-A to raised chassis is not specified in the rules (for this year).
So to gain the space for aero under the raised chassis, teams will step up the chassis behind the A-A bulkhead. This is what Force India have done
There's no CofG reason to the lower A-A bulkhead, its simply to meet the rules. The wishbone mounts, inboard suspension and pedals can largely stay in the same place as last year.
Teams should be able to deal with the aerodynamic inconvenience of the step, a "S" duct would help, but seeing as Ferrari didn't race theirs slotted nose last, I doubt its value.
If you do run an "S" duct, then you'd want the inlet below it, this effectively cuts off the air passing under the nose and the remaining flow can easily reattached to the underside of the chassis, the result will be as the step isnt there and you have a chassis as rasised as last years. The top exit then helps reattach the flow over the step above the nose, which will be further aided by a vanity panel.

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Holm86
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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scarbs wrote:
If you do run an "S" duct, then you'd want the inlet below it, this effectively cuts off the air passing under the nose and the remaining flow can easily reattached to the underside of the chassis, the result will be as the step isnt there and you have a chassis as rasised as last years. The top exit then helps reattach the flow over the step above the nose, which will be further aided by a vanity panel.
Though wouldnt a "reverse s-duct" bring more air underneath the chassis also help remove the step under the chassis?? And bring more air in to reduce some of the negative effects of the lower nose??

scarbs
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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You've already got plenty of clean airflow coming in under there, no need to complicate it with output from a duct. Look at all the lower slotted solutions up until now, all bleed flow from underneath to soemwhere else.

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Blackout
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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Holm86 wrote:Scarbs RB10 featured a normal S-duct. Which draws air fron underneath the nose to up over the nose.

I draw a fast sketch of the S-duct which takes the air from on the top of the nose to underneath it on the previous page :-)
Indeed, I was editing my post to write that... :)

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Holm86
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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scarbs wrote:You've already got plenty of clean airflow coming in under there, no need to complicate it with output from a duct. Look at all the lower slotted solutions up until now, all bleed flow from underneath to soemwhere else.
I guess youre right :-) The intake area of the duct would also have a low pressure zone right?? Which would be favorable underneath the nose and not on top.

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Blackout
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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scarbs wrote:
Blackout wrote:So, to sum up;
FI did this according to piola
The rules demand the A-A bulkhead is at 525mm, but allow the rest of the raised chassis to be as high as 625mm. The step from A-A to raised chassis is not specified in the rules (for this year).
So to gain the space for aero under the raised chassis, teams will step up the chassis behind the A-A bulkhead. This is what Force India have done
There's no CofG reason to the lower A-A bulkhead, its simply to meet the rules. The wishbone mounts, inboard suspension and pedals can largely stay in the same place as last year.
Teams should be able to deal with the aerodynamic inconvenience of the step, a "S" duct would help, but seeing as Ferrari didn't race theirs slotted nose last, I doubt its value.
If you do run an "S" duct, then you'd want the inlet below it, this effectively cuts off the air passing under the nose and the remaining flow can easily reattached to the underside of the chassis, the result will be as the step isnt there and you have a chassis as rasised as last years. The top exit then helps reattach the flow over the step above the nose, which will be further aided by a vanity panel.
Ok, thanks. (i thought the 525mm excludes the monocoque and concerns the nose only :oops:)
About the COG, many teams in the last years placed some of the buldkhead, like the steering mechanism, as low as possible (Renault and Mclaren in 2010, Caterham and Lotus in the two las years) I assumed that was done for a lower CoG... and Fry said the front pull rods brings some gains in that area...

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Racer X
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 19:04

Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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I have to say if the rumors are true I see FI with a decent car lets hope they nail the packaging right and cooling that's what it's going to be all about for teams more then The Aero due to well everything all already know the regs..
RedBull Racing Checo//PEREZ

multisync
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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First engine delivered to the factory so they can now start building the car.

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Blackout
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Re: Force India VJM07 Pre-launch Speculation

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Can the orange part have an inverted 'U' shaped section ?
It would look similar to this kind of twin keel : P

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