Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
czt
0
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by czt » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:54 pm

Moose wrote:
Vary wrote:What was the winning bid for the 2015 windtunnel model?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was reasonably high, and bought by another F1 team. Caterham and Sauber would certainly like to get a look at how their aero details are working I'm sure. It would probably still be interesting to teams higher up the grid too.
It went for £2.6k

It'll be of no interest to other teams - if they wanted to look at it to get any ideas they'd have gone and had a look at it on the viewing days.

Facts Only
270
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:25 am

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by Facts Only » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:33 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Facts Only wrote:People are literally losing their minds on the auction today, for example lot 2080 (pillar drill) sold for £350 (so £462 total with Buyer Premium and VAT), you can buy the exact drill brand new all in from Machine Mart for £260! Quite insane.
Rich fools with money to burn! They know not one thing about machinery, they just wanna buy stuff! haha idiots.
It was topped later on in the auction when someone paid £858 for a £259 Machine Mart hydraulic press, yes an extra £600 to get the same item but used and with no warranty.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

Moose
126
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by Moose » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:51 pm

czt wrote:
Moose wrote:
Vary wrote:What was the winning bid for the 2015 windtunnel model?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was reasonably high, and bought by another F1 team. Caterham and Sauber would certainly like to get a look at how their aero details are working I'm sure. It would probably still be interesting to teams higher up the grid too.
It went for £2.6k

It'll be of no interest to other teams - if they wanted to look at it to get any ideas they'd have gone and had a look at it on the viewing days.
You can't put it in a wind tunnel on a viewing day.

czt
0
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by czt » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:59 pm

Moose wrote: You can't put it in a wind tunnel on a viewing day.
You can't put Marussia model part onto a Sauber or Caterham wind tunnel model either

Moose
126
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by Moose » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:44 pm

czt wrote:
Moose wrote: You can't put it in a wind tunnel on a viewing day.
You can't put Marussia model part onto a Sauber or Caterham wind tunnel model either
No, but you can observe how the whole car is working, and use that for inspiration for sure.

PlatinumZealot
348
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:03 am

Sauber can easily buy the IP if they wanted. Once you got those CAD files you can make as much models as you like.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Thunder
Moderator
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:50 am
Location: Germany

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by Thunder » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:19 am

Facts Only wrote: It was topped later on in the auction when someone paid £858 for a £259 Machine Mart hydraulic press, yes an extra £600 to get the same item but used and with no warranty.
But it's an F1 Hydraulic Press. I mean sure it moves ten times as fast and has at least twice the Force just by being used in a F1 Team, RIGHT???? It's worth every Penny.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

Manoah2u
379
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:01 am

Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

hilow88
0
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:46 am

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by hilow88 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:02 am

DisgruntledMarussian wrote:Hello everyone, let me introduce myself as an ex member of the Marussia design team.

I thought as I am no longer under contract with Marussia or Manor I would reply to some of the questions posed on this forum. Im not going to spill all the bean, just correct some of the rumours as many of the staff were quite proud of the windtunnel model and the design direction the car was heading in.

The incomplete Marussia 2015 Formula 1 car design has been revealed after the teams financial collapse. Shown here as an incomplete wind tunnel model the car which would have been called the Manor MNR1-Ferrari carries over much of the 2014 design.

This car is almost complete, the wheels and a small section under the nose are removed ready to place the car in its transport box to McLaren's wind tunnel.

New rules being introduced for the 2015 season mean that the nose structures of the cars have to be reworked and the Manor-Marussia solution is clear to see on this scale model. Compared to the 2014 MR03 the front of the chassis is lower and as a result the front suspension pushrod mountings have created blisters on the upper surface of the tub. A new front wing endplate design is also evident.

The blisters on the chassis are only for the model and is a compromise due to packaging constraints of a 50% model and stuffing it full of sensors and motors to drive the steering, the real car would not have had these.

Manor MNR1At the rear of the car the 2014 concept has largely carried over with the much copied Y-Lon rear wing support. The wing itself is updated compared to the last version seen on a Marussia MR03 (in Sochi), the endplate now features Ferrari style strakes on its outer edge and twin vents on the leading edge instead of the single vent seen at Sochi.

The Y-Lon and monkey wing is actually the same as MR03 as this stage of testing, new designs of rear wing supports and monkey wings were designed and due for testing including a "Yuan-Lon".

"It is conceivable that Marussia had intended to modify its MR03 chassis to meet the new for 2015 rules in an attempt to reduce costs, which highlights the amount of similarity seen with the new design, but also its likely that the Marussia engineers were utilising the same model used for the 2014 design for the 2015 work."

The chassis was going to be all new and was in early production, the surfaces on the upper and lower sections of the nose are very different to MR03. Also the new chassis (known internally as MR04) was several hundred mm shorter than MR03, this was accomplished using a shorter and taller "fuel tank" area of the monocoque. This area of the chassis was quite neatly packaged as above it sloping off on each side were 2 rhomboid shaped heat exchangers feeding from the roll hoop via a Y shaped duct.

"Is it a 50% wind tunnel model?
Or smaller?"


Correct the model is 50% scale.

The second section of the nose seems to have a 'T' shape, (not a simple rectangle because it looks too thin to me).
But it seems they kept the same dimension as the 2014 finger nose for the first section.


Correct there is a keel running under the nose.

Question that may raise then
is, was Marussia effectively over before Japan already or did the test results / windtunnel results for this 2015 prototype
made them decide they've invested and spent money to no luck and it's better to stop effective immidiately?
I like to see varying designs on the 2015 noses, this one is interesting though - but is it practical and effective?


Development of the MR04 started long long before Japan. The wind tunnel model was running in the tunnel back in the early summer, initial design work done back in the spring. MR04 was quite far ahead in terms Cl than MR03 you've seen on track and still a fair bit ahead of the best wind tunnel development of MR03. There was a large update package designed for MR03 that looks like a cross between the car you've seen on track and this wind tunnel model.

That said, am I wrong or the lower part of the chassis below the suspensions is completely missing?

Correct a piece of chassis is missing ahead of the mid barge boards. This section need to be removed for transport within its travel box so a structural piece of the spine of the chassis can be supported, also hence no wheels. The MR04 model was scheduled to be transported to McLarens wind tunnel the day the vast majority were made redundant by the administrator.

I see the little air intake on the airbox is gone.

Yup, that intake was for cooling on the MR03 and quite a late edition. Not for any funky aero like a F-ducts etc.

It seems to me, or the car is shorter?

Yes, see above.

Thats about as far as I want to explain things right now, still seems slightly odd talking about it on here but as i've mentioned myself and the rest of the people involved with the team were really proud of MR04 and the direction it was heading, we felt for sure we would continue our advance up the grid.

Also if anyone from McLaren is reading this i would get in contact with the administrators currently running Marussia/Manor about retrieving the leased equipment (if you've not already) such as the over head model strut and control systems that can be seen in these photos, i would really hate to see that get weighed in for scrap.

And finally i'd like to thank all the forum users here for scouring the internet for photos every GP and digging up all the little easy to over see aero details changes, we do read what you write! Keep up the good work!

I have another question, as I understand the model has been taken apart and is now being sold as seen on the pictures.
Is it possible to be put back together as it was in the wind tunnel????
have all the parts been put on the table and how difficult is it to put them back together?????
thank you very much in advance
Kind Regards

DisgruntledMarussian
87
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by DisgruntledMarussian » Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:42 pm

Looking at those pictures it seems like quite a few significant parts of the model are missing.
First and foremost the "spine" of the car is missing. This is the structural component of the model that all the wetted surfaces are attached to and is where the model bolts to the strut of the wind tunnel. Also the spine holds the roll and yaw control motors along with a vast array of sensors of various types. The core centre section of the spine was leased from McLaren as it contains the various sensors, computers and mechanisms that are compatible with their wind tunnel.
From this core centre section of the spine Marussia designed structural parts to extend the spine from the nose to the rear impact structure and sections to bolt the suspension to.

Also missing from the pictures is the floor of the car, this was made from aluminium and was full of pressure taps and is a fairly significant piece, cant see any of the forwards chassis pieces, tyres, or much of the body work. Most of the parts int he pictures seem to be of representative internal components (FYI as someone asked, this is to introduce a representative of the internal blockage the air flow through the heat exchangers see). These might be out of shot or missing.

So to answer the question to put it back together as an entire model ready for the wind tunnel would require significant work. To put it back together (assuming that all the parts are just out of the picture, minus McLarens core spine) as a really cool model to sit somewhere and look cool (and maybe paint is to look good) would be fairly easy. You could just make a large MDF block to tie the front and rear of the car together and glue the bodywork into position.

Also just to mention, the auction so far hasn't featured much from the model (Just the 2015 car), in storage (in the chicken shed as it was called) are 100s of boxes full of 10 of thousands of model parts from several years of wind tunnel running. But I would think that it would be exceptionally hard to make a complete model from theses box's unless someone bought all of them (several vans worth of boxes to put it in context). If these go up in auction and are sub divided and you are tempted, just buy it at face value as a cool box F1 wind tunnel trinkets as putting them together as a total model would be a mission!

PlatinumZealot
348
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:54 pm

How are the radiators represented in the model? Do you use real mini radiators?

And I have always wondered: are things like, tie rods, brake disks, bearings and screws and drive shafts represented as well, or only just the general surfaces of the car?
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

DisgruntledMarussian
87
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by DisgruntledMarussian » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:18 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:How are the radiators represented in the model? Do you use real mini radiators?

And I have always wondered: are things like, tie rods, brake disks, bearings and screws and drive shafts represented as well, or only just the general surfaces of the car?
If you look back on page 4 you can just about make them out. You can see 2 sidepod inlet with ducting to the radiators each side of the engine cover. The radiators are made from 3d printed SLA i think, made in one shot so theres no glued joints or anything so the are quite large components. The design usually has a multitude of pressure taps printed within the structure so results across the face can be analysed. There's usually a large slot down the side of the radiator that spans the whole face, this is so stainless steel gauze that are glued to a thin metallic frame can be fitted to the radiators to represent accurate blockage. The slot in the radiator is usually big enough to fit 3-5 layers of framed gauzes so the blockage can be tuned.

So no they are not real mini functioning "radiators" but they are accurate aerodynamic representations and have the ability to be tuned with feedback from CFD and the real car data.

The entire brake area is pretty detailed, disks are very accurately modelled, every single drilling on the full side disk is represented at model level including entry and exit ducting, you can even make out the rim seal on the model dustbins.

Drive shafts are representative and kinematically correct but they dont rotate with the wheels, in fact the the entire suspension system is very close to the kinematics of the full size car with regards to the wishbones and the pushrods, but there are a few exceptions due to the packaging constraints of the model but the errors are minimal and strategically designed to be in insensitive areas if they cant be avoided. (For example the blisters over the front suspension chassis end pushrods would not be on the full size car as the suspension system is much more complex that just a pair of bellcranks and packaged within the chassis, but on the model with limited space thats also competing with the steering motor mechanisms this is the best compromise).

So its not just the general surfaces, its a lot more detailed. Even the exhaust is functioning with compressed air coming out of the tail pipe.

siwillems
0
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by siwillems » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:53 pm

Thanks disgruntled, marrusia where one of my favourite teams (the other being maclaren). The level of attention to detail for a back of a grid team is eye opening. I hope something can be salvaged for the future.
Da de dum, de da da dum.
Da de dum, de da da duh!!!

marcush.
268
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by marcush. » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:55 pm

so both exhaust and radiator exit is not giving hot air exit -which is a bit surprising considering the minute improvements one is looking for....
I would have thought that in aero especially temperature distribution is a major concern when predicting flow and drag and downforce... in Indianapolis the guys are waiting for that cloud to appear to make their all out qualy attempt and here the teams are basically ignoring those effects? would it be too much to have a heat exchanger in the pods? and have heated exhaust air?

Blanchimont
309
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:47 pm

Re: Manor MNR1 - Ferrari (aka 2015 Marussia)

Post by Blanchimont » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:54 pm

One more try to get some information on engine power. :wink:

Can you give us your opinion on how the best 2014 engine compares to the best 2013 engine regarding peak power? Is it about the same, or is the 2014 one weaker(deficit of more than 5%) or more than 5% stronger?
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)