Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Joseki
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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max_speed wrote:did i miss any new updates mclaren bought ?.alonso within 1 second of mercedes on supersoft
New rear sospension but I think it's not a real gap, Fernando did a perfect lap (-1.1 s on JB) and Mercedes was probably low on power.

Still, it's the closest they've been in FP2 I believe.

EDIT: FA set the 5th fastest time in S3, the car seems to improve every race.

wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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trinidefender wrote:
DiogoBrand wrote:Can we expect a Merc style FW next season? I mean, no one can know for sure what's best, but it seems the two most aerodinamically advanced teams are using it, so it must have one or two qualities to it, right?
Not to mention... it's f*****g beautiful!
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... medium.jpg
I actually find this funny. In 2013 everybody was banging on how Mclaren and others should copy the RedBull style front wing with the last element attached to the outer endplate. Now that McLaren has adopted that design idea that PP brought across (with the last element attached to the outer endplate) from RedBull everybody is off their rockers again saying that McLaren should copy the Merc style wing with a separated outer endplate and last wing element.

You guys crack me up, can never make up your minds.
To be honest, teams all followed such trends, so there is a sense of "X is better" here.

In 2012-2013 we saw pretty much the whole field applying the Red Bull end plate design.

In 2014, we saw the whole field apply Merc's design in some way.

The Red Bull solution seemed to be more focused on the wing itself, which makes sense with the full-width front wing. The solution Merc uses seems to be more about turning the air around the tires, with a less wide front wing, this too makes sense in the rule set.

The whole field has in some way applied Mercs solution(or in the past, Red Bulls solution). Is this because the solution is better? probably. Is this because Merc is the fastest team? Probably too.

Of course no one of us has CFD vision and thus makes it all a quick guess, but when the majority converges towards the same idea, it is fairly safe to conclude that this solution is better.

McLaren generally has been behind on this trend. In 2011 Teams first started to experiment with vortices from the wing tips, creating some fancy bends in this area. The first time McLaren utilized this? 2013. That's already two years later.

end 2009 teams started applying smooth curves from the wing elements to end plates. The first time McLaren fully applied this? 2013(iic) Remote end-plates is the same thing, McLaren was far later to the party. If we judge past and current trends we can see that the McLaren front wing still follows previous trends(which isn't all that surprising, as the initial front wing was a Red Bull carbon copy).

In my personal opinion(Oh, this isn't fact based) McLaren never seemed to have grasped the aerodynamics after 2008. They either had a silver bullet(F-Duct, Coanda exhaust etc.) or they were late to the party. And in 2015, this still seems to continue on.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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DiogoBrand
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Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Thunders wrote:The Austin Wing already follows the Merc Philosophy.

The Picture you posted is from RB at the beginning of the Season which doesn't even follow that concept. So i'm not sure what the Point of it was.
Later in the season RB moved even closer to Merc's concept, but at the begginning of the season I found it to be already pretty similar, with several thin elements instead of fewer and wider fins.
trinidefender wrote: I actually find this funny. In 2013 everybody was banging on how Mclaren and others should copy the RedBull style front wing with the last element attached to the outer endplate. Now that McLaren has adopted that design idea that PP brought across (with the last element attached to the outer endplate) from RedBull everybody is off their rockers again saying that McLaren should copy the Merc style wing with a separated outer endplate and last wing element.

You guys crack me up, can never make up your minds.
Those concepts are always changing and evolving. What seems to be the best thing since sliced bread in one season may be completely obsolete on the next.
I said pretty clearly on my post that we can't say with any sure which design is better than the other, but when the best team uses a design, and the team which is regarded as one of the most advanced aerodinamically (RB) follows it, you can safely assume it's a very good one.
What do you want? People believing a concept from almost three years ago is still the one to follow? If you want that you're following the wrong sport.
Last edited by DiogoBrand on 27 Nov 2015, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.

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DiogoBrand
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Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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wesley123 wrote: To be honest, teams all followed such trends, so there is a sense of "X is better" here.

In 2012-2013 we saw pretty much the whole field applying the Red Bull end plate design.

In 2014, we saw the whole field apply Merc's design in some way.

The Red Bull solution seemed to be more focused on the wing itself, which makes sense with the full-width front wing. The solution Merc uses seems to be more about turning the air around the tires, with a less wide front wing, this too makes sense in the rule set.

The whole field has in some way applied Mercs solution(or in the past, Red Bulls solution). Is this because the solution is better? probably. Is this because Merc is the fastest team? Probably too.

Of course no one of us has CFD vision and thus makes it all a quick guess, but when the majority converges towards the same idea, it is fairly safe to conclude that this solution is better.

McLaren generally has been behind on this trend. In 2011 Teams first started to experiment with vortices from the wing tips, creating some fancy bends in this area. The first time McLaren utilized this? 2013. That's already two years later.

end 2009 teams started applying smooth curves from the wing elements to end plates. The first time McLaren fully applied this? 2013(iic) Remote end-plates is the same thing, McLaren was far later to the party. If we judge past and current trends we can see that the McLaren front wing still follows previous trends(which isn't all that surprising, as the initial front wing was a Red Bull carbon copy).

In my personal opinion(Oh, this isn't fact based) McLaren never seemed to have grasped the aerodynamics after 2008. They either had a silver bullet(F-Duct, Coanda exhaust etc.) or they were late to the party. And in 2015, this still seems to continue on.
Exactly the reason I said what I said. Although we've seen some evolution on their desing throughout the season, the general concept of Mclaren's front wing still looks a lot closer to Red Bull's 2014 design than to the current trends.
And if they're gonna follow someone else's trend instead of creating their own anyway, let them at least follow the latest ones.

GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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max_speed wrote:did i miss any new updates mclaren bought ?.alonso within 1 second of mercedes on supersoft
He is 2,5 off 2014 Q3 time....
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

Joseki
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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GoranF1 wrote:
max_speed wrote:did i miss any new updates mclaren bought ?.alonso within 1 second of mercedes on supersoft
He is 2,5 off 2014 Q3 time....
They all are a lot off the 2014 times.

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Hail22
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Joined: 08 Feb 2012, 07:22

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Abu Dhabi Friday:

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If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.

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max_speed
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Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 04:33

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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bad luck Fernando got the puncture on flying but Button made it into Q2 at 10th place. considering button copied alonso's settings i guess fernando would have been 2 to 3tenths up on button. good sign

Tauri_J
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Joined: 28 Mar 2015, 12:01

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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yeah they've been suprisingly fast even though the top speed are still a joke

Alonsofor2017
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015, 19:46

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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I believe Alonso would made it to q3 if he was in q2 as there was only 1.5 tenths to Toro Rosso even button could have made it if he did a lap like in q2

GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Alonsofor2017 wrote:I believe Alonso would made it to q3 if he was in q2 as there was only 1.5 tenths to Toro Rosso even button could have made it if he did a lap like in q2
do you know how was alonso vs button in sector2 before Alonso puncture?
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

Joseki
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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The car really improved and now there's no doubt about it.

chengzhongyi2013
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Joined: 28 Nov 2015, 15:49

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Alonso did a 43.0 in sector 2 just before the puncture.
Button did a 42.8 in sector 2 on his same flying lap.

GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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chengzhongyi2013 wrote:Alonso did a 43.0 in sector 2 just before the puncture.
Button did a 42.8 in sector 2 on his same flying lap.
sector 1 of same lap?....and where do you find this? thanks.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

chengzhongyi2013
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Joined: 28 Nov 2015, 15:49

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Silent observer on this forum and Long-suffering admirer of Alonso here, have a lot to learn from all here.
Couple of questions:
1. Is McLaren still suffering from rear grip issues;
2. Is the location of the MGU-H/MGU-K (sitting inside the vee of the engine) going to be revised for the 2016 season?

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