Virtual Gravel Trap

[graham.reeds]

With drivers disrespecting track limits regularly I was thinking about penalties for frequent flyers as it were. Charlie Whiting made a deal out of it earlier in the year but not heard a peep in a while.

So put all 4 wheels outside the track limits for longer than a short but finite period you will rapidly lose power down to 90% of normal.

[langwadt]

With drivers disrespecting track limits regularly I was thinking about penalties for frequent flyers as it were. Charlie Whiting made a deal out of it earlier in the year but not heard a peep in a while.

So put all 4 wheels outside the track limits for longer than a short but finite period you will rapidly lose power down to 90% of normal.

just cutting power would be dangerous.

to really enforce track limits they would have a guy monitoring every a car every single lap or put automatic detection
points in, that would cost money, though they could probably limit it to a few places on each track that is likely to see cars using more than the track.

if they really want to get rid of it, hand out automatic drives throughs for four wheels of track, safety of tarmac run off with a possibly race ruining penalty, just like a gravel trap

[DiogoBrand]

Can someone explain why gravel traps are being killed? I don't see how they're any less safe than tarmac run-off, while tarmac run-off areas make tracks look a lot less challenging and a lot more forgiving for driver errors. Desn't look like the right way to go IMO.

[langwadt]

Can someone explain why gravel traps are being killed? I don't see how they're any less safe than tarmac run-off, while tarmac run-off areas make tracks look a lot less challenging and a lot more forgiving for driver errors. Desn't look like the right way to go IMO.

as long as it is dry and the car has wheels and brakes it stops faster on tarmac, and there is less risk of digging in and flipping over

[graham.reeds]

With drivers disrespecting track limits regularly I was thinking about penalties for frequent flyers as it were. Charlie Whiting made a deal out of it earlier in the year but not heard a peep in a while.

So put all 4 wheels outside the track limits for longer than a short but finite period you will rapidly lose power down to 90% of normal.

just cutting power would be dangerous.

to really enforce track limits they would have a guy monitoring every a car every single lap or put automatic detection
points in, that would cost money, though they could probably limit it to a few places on each track that is likely to see cars using more than the track.

if they really want to get rid of it, hand out automatic drives throughs for four wheels of track, safety of tarmac run off with a possibly race ruining penalty, just like a gravel trap

Cars have GPS and IMU onboard plus all teams use differential GPS to gain accuracy. Each team has to load the track limits into the onboard computer. Race Control has positional feeds of all the cars so they can easily verify that the cars are obeying the limits in real time.

Would it be quicker to cut the corner at the top of Eau Rouge at 99% power or stick to the track at 100%? How about 98? 97?

Alternatively paint were the gravel traps used to be and force the cars to be slow through there. Doesn't make the drivers obey the track limits though.

[Just_a_fan]

Put a trench outside of the kerbs. Any car going past the kerbs will drop its outer wheels in the trench causing the plank to bottom out on the kerb. The trench only needs to be deep enough to cause bottoming out, nothing more.

Or put a water filled trench outside of the kerbs. Just needs to hold an inch of water. Would cause enough of a "moment" plus cool the tyres that drivers would avoid it.

[graham.reeds]

Put a trench outside of the kerbs. Any car going past the kerbs will drop its outer wheels in the trench causing the plank to bottom out on the kerb. The trench only needs to be deep enough to cause bottoming out, nothing more.

Or put a water filled trench outside of the kerbs. Just needs to hold an inch of water. Would cause enough of a "moment" plus cool the tyres that drivers would avoid it.

As soon as you bottom out, aero stops and you have no control. To quote Martin Brundle "You will be going straight to the scene of the accident".

[DaveW]

As soon as you bottom out, aero stops and you have no control. To quote Martin Brundle "You will be going straight to the scene of the accident".

What's that, it works? Job done then....

Mr Horner, did you say it compromises your aero? Then you will have to get Mr Newey to adapt. That should keep him occupied for a while.....

[Jolle]

It wouldn't be difficult to put in some markers in the tarmac outside of some corners and a detection sensor in th car that cuts a bit of power when you cross them to prevent the drivers to leave the circuit to gain time or a place.

You can still take some risks and safely go off. Any systems to damage the plank, having a trench with water or big bumps just sounds very dangerous. Most of the permanent curcuits also have to be used by other racing series, including gentlemen racers in their Ferraris or motorbikes.

A knock from a hump or trench can break a F1 drivers back if he's unlucky.

[ian_s]

any cut in power, however small, could be disastrous.
the answer to this is simple: at each point where its common for drivers to go off the track, put a high speed camera on it, and a dedicated steward monitoring each camera. every time a driver goes off the track, flag it up.
3 flags means a drive through penalty.

any automated system is a bad idea. it could punish drivers for trying to avoid an accident in front of them, which just isn't fair.

[Jolle]

any cut in power, however small, could be disastrous.
the answer to this is simple: at each point where its common for drivers to go off the track, put a high speed camera on it, and a dedicated steward monitoring each camera. every time a driver goes off the track, flag it up.
3 flags means a drive through penalty.

any automated system is a bad idea. it could punish drivers for trying to avoid an accident in front of them, which just isn't fair.

Most drivers already back off the throttle when they go off the circuit to avoid a collision, so that's not really a problem.

[i70q7m7ghw]

They should just adopt the design Silverstone uses, which is border the track with a couple of feet of astro-turf before the run off starts. When you run wide you loose grip on the astro turf, if you go very wide or have an accident you'll go over the astro-turf and then make use of the run-off to slow the car down.

[RicME85]

Charlie has said they are looking into what they can do, electronically was one of the things he mentioned

[Just_a_fan]

Put a trench outside of the kerbs. Any car going past the kerbs will drop its outer wheels in the trench causing the plank to bottom out on the kerb. The trench only needs to be deep enough to cause bottoming out, nothing more.

Or put a water filled trench outside of the kerbs. Just needs to hold an inch of water. Would cause enough of a "moment" plus cool the tyres that drivers would avoid it.

As soon as you bottom out, aero stops and you have no control. To quote Martin Brundle "You will be going straight to the scene of the accident".

You bottom out the plank - the step plane will still be open. The idea is to discourage the drivers from going off the track and that would surely do it. An area of shallow water that cools the tyres would be enough to discourage them anyway. Just 10mm would be sufficient. Heck, wet astro-turf would do the job.

[OO7]

Wouldn't it be far easier and self-policing, to border the track with a four metre width strip of grass verge?