McLaren MP4-31 Honda

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Joseki
Joseki
56
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:30 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Nice confirmation of what many speculated here: mechanical grip was the weakest aspect of this year car.

Hopefully not having tested the 2017 tyres will not have a negative effect on the suspension design chosen for next year, McLaren will need a great mechanical grip next year.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 3 utilizzando Tapatalk

User avatar
Abarth
54
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Wazari wrote: Yes, you are correct. Two cars starting from a standstill can have different grip (traction) levels with the same tires. There is no DF at that point but suspension geometry and car rake play an important role in grip levels.
Hmmm. Yet they were able to perform from well to outstandingly off the line at the start. Which should also be an indication about how the mechanical grip level is.

I'm still a bit confused.

User avatar
Wazari
708
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:49 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Abarth wrote:
Wazari wrote: Yes, you are correct. Two cars starting from a standstill can have different grip (traction) levels with the same tires. There is no DF at that point but suspension geometry and car rake play an important role in grip levels.
Hmmm. Yet they were able to perform from well to outstandingly off the line at the start. Which should also be an indication about how the mechanical grip level is.

I'm still a bit confused.
I wasn't specifically speaking about McLaren. Maybe poor wording or example on my part. I was just trying to say that two cars with the same DF don't necessarily have the same grip/traction or aero efficiency. Straight line grip where L to R weight distribution is relatively equal and static is not as difficult as in turns/corners where L to R weight distribution is constantly shifting and poses more challenges.
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.

User avatar
ME4ME
173
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Wazari wrote:I wasn't specifically speaking about McLaren. Maybe poor wording or example on my part. I was just trying to say that two cars with the same DF don't necessarily have the same grip/traction or aero efficiency. Straight line grip where L to R weight distribution is relatively equal and static is not as difficult as in turns/corners where L to R weight distribution is constantly shifting and poses more challenges.
Thanks for your contribution in this thread so far. You're very generous. Can you shed any light on if Mclaren made any progress on the suspension this year, either in developing new items or in general learning and understanding of the problem?

We're having an discussion on the MP4-32 which you're welcome to join.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12&t=25430

User avatar
Wazari
708
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:49 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

It is my understanding that it was learned why they were having difficulties with the rear suspension. To make changes to the basic suspension design is virtually impossible once the car is built. This would require at least 3 to 6 months lead time to implement changes to the chassis. That's why IMO chassis development is more time and labor intensive than PU development and more critical to get "right" from the start of the season.
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.

User avatar
Thunder
Moderator
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:50 am
Location: Germany

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Well it is good to Hear that they know what was wrong.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

User avatar
ringo
232
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

And for those criticizing monisha katelborn in Suaber for sticking with the old engine to focus on the chasis, they can now see that she did make a good decision to focus on the chassis side.

We i guess the butterfly suspension gimmick has disadvantaged mclaren's development path over the years. They need to figure out what they want from the car and which direction they want to take. Force India on the other hand have made steady progress over the years with fairly safe and conservative designs. At this stage a force india has better traction than mclaren. You wouldn't imagine that five years ago.

Its disappointing though, because mclaren always has the most sensors and gimmicks on their car during testing, and yet they weren't able to notice during the pirelli testing how bad a car they were going to make for those tyres. lol
For Sure!!

User avatar
Andres125sx
357
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

ringo wrote:Its disappointing though, because mclaren always has the most sensors and gimmicks on their car during testing, and yet they weren't able to notice during the pirelli testing how bad a car they were going to make for those tyres.
Wazari wrote:To make changes to the basic suspension design is virtually impossible once the car is built. This would require at least 3 to 6 months lead time to implement changes to the chassis.

kasio
kasio
0
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:03 am

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
ringo wrote:Its disappointing though, because mclaren always has the most sensors and gimmicks on their car during testing, and yet they weren't able to notice during the pirelli testing how bad a car they were going to make for those tyres.
Wazari wrote:To make changes to the basic suspension design is virtually impossible once the car is built. This would require at least 3 to 6 months lead time to implement changes to the chassis.
season is 8 months. so its not time. and if i get ringo right he did not mean only 2016 anyway.

User avatar
ClarkBT11
16
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:53 pm
Location: Uk

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Does McLaren have adjustable rear suspension points like Mercedes have or does anyone think that will be something McLaren and other teams might adopt next season?

PhillipM
PhillipM
365
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

The thing you have to remember with the suspension geometery and tyres is that it's all a compromise, they may have found a better solution to gain traction later on that hurt something else too much to try this year without a significant rework, as a bolt on solution could quite easily damage other characteristics more than it helps traction. That and the extra power from the Honda may have been more than they initially expected (out of traction limit corners with the better deployment systems.)

User avatar
mclaren111
223
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

ClarkBT11 wrote:Does McLaren have adjustable rear suspension points like Mercedes have or does anyone think that will be something McLaren and other teams might adopt next season?
McLaren has hired an engineer from Mercedes that is an expert in this area but then Mercedes made counter in effort to keep this engineer.

I read in an article that legal actions are underway regarding McLaren's contract with this engineer.

Thus, it seems they will have it next year. Hope they find alternative expert / engineer soon !!!

Muulka
Muulka
0
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:04 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

mclaren111 wrote:
ClarkBT11 wrote:Does McLaren have adjustable rear suspension points like Mercedes have or does anyone think that will be something McLaren and other teams might adopt next season?
McLaren has hired an engineer from Mercedes that is an expert in this area but then Mercedes made counter in effort to keep this engineer.

I read in an article that legal actions are underway regarding McLaren's contract with this engineer.

Thus, it seems they will have it next year. Hope they find alternative expert / engineer soon !!!
I'd seriously doubt that any of the teams are regularly adjusting their suspension geometry throughout the season. Firstly because you don't stand to gain very much and secondly because it's a ridiculous amount of work because changing one thing changes everything else. Not least the aero.

It's just not feasible unless you have a really, really serious problem

User avatar
ClarkBT11
16
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:53 pm
Location: Uk

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

Muulka wrote:
mclaren111 wrote:
ClarkBT11 wrote:Does McLaren have adjustable rear suspension points like Mercedes have or does anyone think that will be something McLaren and other teams might adopt next season?
McLaren has hired an engineer from Mercedes that is an expert in this area but then Mercedes made counter in effort to keep this engineer.

I read in an article that legal actions are underway regarding McLaren's contract with this engineer.

Thus, it seems they will have it next year. Hope they find alternative expert / engineer soon !!!
I'd seriously doubt that any of the teams are regularly adjusting their suspension geometry throughout the season. Firstly because you don't stand to gain very much and secondly because it's a ridiculous amount of work because changing one thing changes everything else. Not least the aero.

It's just not feasible unless you have a really, really serious problem
They know what their setup is before they get to the track of their simulators. If you don't need to adjust the suspension why have the option to do so. I know gaining will always mean your loosing on other handling charistics but say one track is bumpy you can change the caster. Why would you not have different settings for different tracks?

Muulka
Muulka
0
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:04 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-31 Honda

Post

ClarkBT11 wrote:
Muulka wrote:
mclaren111 wrote:
McLaren has hired an engineer from Mercedes that is an expert in this area but then Mercedes made counter in effort to keep this engineer.

I read in an article that legal actions are underway regarding McLaren's contract with this engineer.

Thus, it seems they will have it next year. Hope they find alternative expert / engineer soon !!!
I'd seriously doubt that any of the teams are regularly adjusting their suspension geometry throughout the season. Firstly because you don't stand to gain very much and secondly because it's a ridiculous amount of work because changing one thing changes everything else. Not least the aero.

It's just not feasible unless you have a really, really serious problem
They know what their setup is before they get to the track of their simulators. If you don't need to adjust the suspension why have the option to do so. I know gaining will always mean your loosing on other handling charistics but say one track is bumpy you can change the caster. Why would you not have different settings for different tracks?
I very much doubt they have the capacity built into their designs to change the geometry. But generally if you wanted to change the castor you'd have to pretty much move all of the suspension mounts. (Of course that is only really relevant on the front suspension, which is even harder to move. It's just a massive job, one which isn't often all that important, so you're better off just getting it right in the first olace