Haas VF16 Ferrari

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Raleigh
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by Raleigh » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:32 am

sgth0mas wrote:Are you responding to someone or just kinda throwing this out there to derail the subject from the haas in season development discussion?
This
ESPImperium wrote:Haas, no matter if you agree with the way and how they have came into F1 will be positive and a new business case study for the sport. I expect to see Honda and Renault look for a similar way into the sport for their 'B-Teams' as i think Manufacturers will soon only have one or two customers, with Mercedes being the exception to this rule.

ME4ME
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by ME4ME » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:04 am

ESPImperium wrote:
ME4ME wrote:I agree, it makes sense to put all development resources onto the 2017 project.

They can still make progress this year, but it will be in other areas such as improving the team, on-track activities and car setup. Also if they can stay in front of Sauber and Manor, they'll get a decent income from finishing 9th in the constructors championship. They should try to really establish their brand in the sport as well, and find some sponsors worth having.
At the moment, if they finished 9th they would get zero as they don't have a deal with FOM right now. So until a deal is struck, they will miss out on the €65m/$71m or so that would boost their modest €70m/$80m budget for this year to a budget that would be greater than Williams/Force India/Toro Rosso (€120m/$135m mark) but less than Renault (Chassis budget €200m/$225m) and easily present them in the mid pack.
I kind of assumed a deal had been made. In early pre-season testing Haas wasn't recognized by F1.com as an F1 team. Haas were also forbidden to post videos on social media. Now however they are fully included in the coverage, and were obviously allowed to participate in Australia, which a team without a contract probably wouldn't have been.

wuzak
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by wuzak » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:39 am

ESPImperium wrote:
ME4ME wrote:I agree, it makes sense to put all development resources onto the 2017 project.

They can still make progress this year, but it will be in other areas such as improving the team, on-track activities and car setup. Also if they can stay in front of Sauber and Manor, they'll get a decent income from finishing 9th in the constructors championship. They should try to really establish their brand in the sport as well, and find some sponsors worth having.
At the moment, if they finished 9th they would get zero as they don't have a deal with FOM right now. So until a deal is struck, they will miss out on the €65m/$71m or so that would boost their modest €70m/$80m budget for this year to a budget that would be greater than Williams/Force India/Toro Rosso (€120m/$135m mark) but less than Renault (Chassis budget €200m/$225m) and easily present them in the mid pack.
I believe that under the rules new teams are not eligible for payments for 2 years.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:11 am

On sky they said the suspension innards of the Hass are not a direct Ferrari design. They say it is designed/modified by the same man who designed the suspension for those great lotuses of 2012/2013. Could explain why the Haas is so good on its tyres.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Raleigh
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by Raleigh » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:42 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:On sky they said the suspension innards of the Hass are not a direct Ferrari design. They say it is designed/modified by the same man who designed the suspension for those great lotuses of 2012/2013. Could explain why the Haas is so good on its tyres.
The 2015/16 Ferrari (and by extension the VF16) are James Allison cars, he's the one behind the 2012/13 Lotuses before he moved to Ferrari.

Basically James Allison didn't get his hands of the SF-15T early enough to change from the pull rod front suspension that Ferrari's been using for a few years back, but for 2016 he went to push rod suspension more similar to what he'd used on the Lotus cars so that's what is on the SF-16H and the VF-16.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:29 pm

Raleigh wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:On sky they said the suspension innards of the Hass are not a direct Ferrari design. They say it is designed/modified by the same man who designed the suspension for those great lotuses of 2012/2013. Could explain why the Haas is so good on its tyres.
The 2015/16 Ferrari (and by extension the VF16) are James Allison cars, he's the one behind the 2012/13 Lotuses before he moved to Ferrari.

Basically James Allison didn't get his hands of the SF-15T early enough to change from the pull rod front suspension that Ferrari's been using for a few years back, but for 2016 he went to push rod suspension more similar to what he'd used on the Lotus cars so that's what is on the SF-16H and the VF-16.
James Allison is an aerodynamics guy though. His cars are good on tyres yes, but that's because he had that guy* on his team at his time at Lotus.. I wish we could see how the SF-16T is on it's tyres but is too early to tell.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

FLuidd
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by FLuidd » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:37 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Raleigh wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:On sky they said the suspension innards of the Hass are not a direct Ferrari design. They say it is designed/modified by the same man who designed the suspension for those great lotuses of 2012/2013. Could explain why the Haas is so good on its tyres.
The 2015/16 Ferrari (and by extension the VF16) are James Allison cars, he's the one behind the 2012/13 Lotuses before he moved to Ferrari.

Basically James Allison didn't get his hands of the SF-15T early enough to change from the pull rod front suspension that Ferrari's been using for a few years back, but for 2016 he went to push rod suspension more similar to what he'd used on the Lotus cars so that's what is on the SF-16H and the VF-16.
James Allison is an aerodynamics guy though. His cars are good on tyres yes, but that's because he had that guy* on his team at his time at Lotus.. I wish we could see how the SF-16T is on it's tyres but is too early to tell.
who is that guy?

ME4ME
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by ME4ME » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:58 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:James Allison is an aerodynamics guy though. His cars are good on tyres yes, but that's because he had that guy* on his team at his time at Lotus.. I wish we could see how the SF-16T is on it's tyres but is too early to tell.
He was. Nowadays his job is primarily management, making the different departments work together.

strad
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by strad » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:30 pm

I believe that under the rules new teams are not eligible for payments for 2 years.
HUH????????? :wtf: I need to go have a look.
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strad
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by strad » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:39 pm

Don't see it.
Can you point me to that rule?
Not doubting you ... Just can't find it.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Tim.Wright
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by Tim.Wright » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:58 pm

This commercial stuff isn't governed by the rules. It's all in the Conchord aggreement I think.
Not the engineer at Force India

strad
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by strad » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:56 pm

•Column 1 payments are shared equally among top 10 teams in last three seasons.
•Column 2 payments is distributed among top 10 teams how they finish in the current constructors championship.
I can see why no column 1 payment but I would think they would get Column2.
However since 1 is based on the past three seasons you can understand being not eligible cause you're always coming from behind.
anyway this is hardly hardware and development ... unless you figure it could affect how much hardware and development you could afford. :wink:
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
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turbof1
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by turbof1 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:36 pm

So, anyone having pictures of the parts being made literally from pounds, dollars or euros? Haas their front wing does look to be a column 2 one, while I rate the rear wing more a column 1.

If you feel confused about that message: sattire and sarcasm my friends. Stay on topic.
#AeroFrodo

strad
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by strad » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:55 am

Not fair!
You know I'm not allowed to answer with a big smiley face only. Image
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Haas VF16 Ferrari

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:31 pm

FLuidd wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Raleigh wrote: The 2015/16 Ferrari (and by extension the VF16) are James Allison cars, he's the one behind the 2012/13 Lotuses before he moved to Ferrari.

Basically James Allison didn't get his hands of the SF-15T early enough to change from the pull rod front suspension that Ferrari's been using for a few years back, but for 2016 he went to push rod suspension more similar to what he'd used on the Lotus cars so that's what is on the SF-16H and the VF-16.
James Allison is an aerodynamics guy though. His cars are good on tyres yes, but that's because he had that guy* on his team at his time at Lotus.. I wish we could see how the SF-16T is on it's tyres but is too early to tell.
who is that guy?
His name was not mentioned the commenator only referred to him as "the guy that designed the Lotus suspension" during the race. It could be a sarcastic, and incorrect, reference to James Allison, because the Haas does have the same control arm and pushrod elements as the SF16. However, to my knowledge James Allison doesn't design suspension systems. He was the technical director at lotus he wouldn't have time to sit at a computer designing the suspension system.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne