Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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Muulka wrote:
trinidefender wrote:
Muulka wrote:
Totally incorrect- all the car's downforce is proportional to the square of the car's speed. Doesn't matter if it's underbody or aerofoil lift, it all increases the same way. The reason you don't get high- and low-downforce floors is that the floor DF is much more efficient in terms of drag- you wouldn't gain much straight line speed from having a worse floor, but you sure would lose an awful lot of grip. The rear wing has a much bigger effect on top speed, and as such that is the component they change to adjust the overall level of downforce.
This would be more true if a car was rock solid. Unfortunately it isn't. The rear of the car squats at speed changing the drag and downforce values of the rear diffuser. The squatting also decreases the angle of attack on the rear wing reducing drag and downforce. The front wings flex, even though the rule makers try their hardest to stop this, which again changes drag and downforce values.

Secondly when a team runs a smaller rear wing it will have less of an effect of the diffuser slightly reducing its effectiveness. So therefore running a smaller rear wing has a similar effect to changing the floor.

Thirdly, about having a "low downforce floor/diffuser," the teams can tune their diffuser with rear ride height, rake angles and how much they allow their car to squat under certain aerodynamic loads.
None of that is inherent to the method of producing DF; the changing properties of the aero parts Under different conditions experienced through a lap. is very carefully controlled through the many, many setup tools which are available (for instance, the clever hydraulic suspension systems can be adjusted a great deal to better orient the car's aero. . There is nothing at all about a diffuser which makes it inherently more efficient at different speeds.

As for the interactions of the different components, that is very much a second-order effect. And besides, the vast majority of that interaction is independent of speed.

So this theory boils down to looking at things which are either second order to second order effects or tunable parameters.
You completely missed the point of my entire post. You made the point that, " the car's downforce is proportional to the square of the car's speed." which is actually wrong as well. Drag is considered more proportional to the cube of the speed not the square.

My point was not arguing what is more efficient or less efficient. My point was that you can't simply say that drag always scales like that. I was saying that the car squatting at speed changes the Cl and Cd numbers at the diffuser and rear wing versus if the car didn't have suspension and the ride height and rake of the diffuser and angle of the rear wing didn't change. Or if the front wing didn't flew at all.

You are thinking in theoretical models, the problem is that in reality as the car squats it will change the cars drag for that speed vs a car that didn't squat.

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turbof1
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Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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I agree on that - almost all of the downforce is coming from the sprung part of the car, which makes those aero devices 'sprung' as well: they change their vector according to the squating. The formula referred to, is only true on a static aerofoil with a static vector. Those change according to aerodynamic load, mostly (but not exclusively) depending on the car speed.
#AeroFrodo

lio007
lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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Do we see a new engine cover in this picture from todays tweet?

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https://twitter.com/redbullracing/statu ... 0897946624

I can't remember the cut-outs that partly cover the Aston Martin logo in this picture.

Dipesh1995
Dipesh1995
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Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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Yep, extra cooling outlet either side to cope with the heat and humidity of Malaysia.

hurril
hurril
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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The RB cars look damn good!

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gastonmazzacane
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:07 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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What is he painting, if there are already stickers on it?

aral
aral
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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gastonmazzacane wrote:What is he painting, if there are already stickers on it?
teflon!

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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He's painting the frosting coat

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Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

JesperA
JesperA
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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Why are the trailing edge of the wishbones and connection rods so thick on the Red Bull? Surely there will be some turbulence when the overside and underside airflow are mixing together again behind the wishbones etc?

Red Bull (using a picture from Morteza:s post) the traling edge on the lower wishbone and trailing edge of the upper/front wishbone looks really thick, in comparison to Mercedes atleast

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Mercedes (which have a much "sharper" trailing edge which most likely is resulting in a smoother mixing)

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Not that it has a big impact or affect the car as whole but a detail i found interesting

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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Self heating brakes?

Image

thisisatest
thisisatest
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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JesperA wrote:Why are the trailing edge of the wishbones and connection rods so thick on the Red Bull? Surely there will be some turbulence when the overside and underside airflow are mixing together again behind the wishbones etc?

Red Bull (using a picture from Morteza:s post) the traling edge on the lower wishbone and trailing edge of the upper/front wishbone looks really thick, in comparison to Mercedes atleast

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/R ... 978512.jpg

Mercedes (which have a much "sharper" trailing edge which most likely is resulting in a smoother mixing)

http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Me ... 950913.jpg

Not that it has a big impact or affect the car as whole but a detail i found interesting
Considering the regulations limit aspect ratio of control arms, I'm surprised more control arms don't have a Kamm style truncated trailing edge.

Webber2011
Webber2011
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Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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PlatinumZealot wrote:Self heating brakes?

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/R ... 978446.jpg
Can you please explain what makes you think that mate ?
Cheers

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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Webber2011 wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:Self heating brakes?

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/R ... 978446.jpg
Can you please explain what makes you think that mate ?
Cheers
Entire hubs are wrapped in that gold coating.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer

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I was just being qdventerous.. But really i dont even know if on board brake heating devices are legal. But that brake covering is certainly designed for high temperatures from inside to outside. Normally the brake covers are just regular looking" carbon fibre on the outside meaning that they dont see extreme temepratures.
Possibly those "cake tins" generate heat till they are red hot....?