Shock/strut difference in design?

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
madmen
madmen
0
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:27 am

Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

Greetings. I just signed up and would like to ask all you learned gentlemen...

Is there a difference in shock absorber design type...if you would like a longitudinal, vertical, or horizontal coilover/shockabsorber...is there a difference? To be clearer, does the shock absorber have to be designed as to be specifically for a vertical or horizontal arrangement?

User avatar
Pierce89
96
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

In short, no.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
Tim.Wright
463
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 am

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

Dampers which aren't pressurised or don't have a physical barrier between the oil and the gas need to be mounted largely vertically to avoid the gas from entering the damping valves. With these types of dampers mounting them horizontally, or even storing it horizontally can render them useless.
Not the engineer at Force India

User avatar
godlameroso
402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_arm_shock_absorber

They need to do a modern interpretation of this for something other than tanks.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
179
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

Lever arm shock absorbers suffer from so many problems I'm amazed they use them for tanks, let alone cars. Surface area/weight is bad. Motion ratios are extreme. They don't sit nicely in the architecture.

They could give a lovely ride due to the motion ratios - no stiction!

User avatar
matt21
101
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:17 pm

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

godlameroso wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_arm_shock_absorber

They need to do a modern interpretation of this for something other than tanks.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/ca ... uspension/

User avatar
godlameroso
402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

matt21 wrote:
godlameroso wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_arm_shock_absorber

They need to do a modern interpretation of this for something other than tanks.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/ca ... uspension/
That's pretty cool, I don't even care about the energy recovery as it's probably fractions of a kW, but the fact that compression and rebound can be independently tuned is very appealing.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
179
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

If you aren't interested in energy recovery then why not use a proven technology like magneride?

User avatar
godlameroso
402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

Either is vapor ware in my application. I wish I could get some magnetorheological dampers.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
179
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

So what's your application? Would it be impossible to use a conventional telescopic shock or is a lever type shock the only acceptable solution?

User avatar
godlameroso
402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

Oh it's a completely conventional design, linear coil spring and monotube telescoping damper. I'm in the process of re-engineering one of my cars, just want to use something unique, like torsion bar instead of coil springs. Or adaptive dampers. Or rotary dampers. But I can't find any manufacturer, I'm more curious than anything, I'm actually perfectly happy with my Ohlins DFV's.

This thing is going to become my shop car, to show off, so I'm pretty much going to town on it.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

DaveW
DaveW
242
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:27 am

Re: Shock/strut difference in design?

Post

godlameroso wrote:....Or adaptive dampers. Or rotary dampers.
Adaptive dampers should work, but you will have to control them. Look for dampers fitted with the Ohlins CES valves. I managed to beg a set from a customer a few years ago for a project. Lots of fun & they worked well.

I wouldn't touch rotary dampers with a barge pole - just estimate the effective velocity ratio. Unity would be good, four not so good (rubber sprung mini), rotary ??