F1 2017 bloated / overweight 728 kg (vs e.g. 1991)

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
gold333
gold333
21
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 1:59 am

Re: F1 2017 bloated / overweight 728 kg (vs e.g. 1991)

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timbo wrote:
gold333 wrote:
I semi-agree that the sport had rules to limit speed since the beginning but the Weickershof protocol adopted (mainly post Senna's crash) had profound "castrating" effects on the cars. the effects of which are only starting to wear off 20-25 years later.
What do you mean by "wearing off"? Ten years from 1994 we had cars which lapped 5-6 second faster will smaller engines and all the restrictions you mention. Without such restrictions I recon we'd see 7-8G cornering and drivers would not be physically able to finish the race.
I think I'm being extremely clear and friendly towards you. With wearing off I mean exactly what I said. Effects to slow the cars down started to wear off lately.

Cars were narrowed from 2.0m to 1.8m to slow them down in 1998. This effect will wear off in 2017 and the old size will be reverted.

Cars were given grooved tires to slow them down in 1998, this effect wore off in 2009 and the old slicks were reverted.

Care were given 15 inch tires to slow them down in 1993, this effect will wear off in 2017 and the old 18inch size will be reverted.

Yes you would have seen 7-8g cornering forces in 2000-2005 already, had Weickershof not been implemented post Senna's death. In fact mid way through 1993 there was talk of introducing G-suits for F1 drivers in the period 1995-1998 if development continued at the then current rate. The 1993 electronic cars with hydraulic and electronic brakes inc. ABS were braking at 6.5G on some tracks already.

All I said is that I wondered what a current F1 car would have looked like had those castrating changes (grooved tires, narrow body, tires, stepped bottom, etc.) not been implemented and Senna had not died.

Now, only post 2009, 2017 we are starting to bit by bit revert back all those slowing down measures.
F1 car width now 2.0m (same as 1993-1997). Lets go crazy and bring the 2.2m cars back (<1992).

timbo
timbo
118
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:14 am

Re: F1 2017 bloated / overweight 728 kg (vs e.g. 1991)

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gold333 wrote:I think I'm being extremely clear and friendly towards you. With wearing off I mean exactly what I said. Effects to slow the cars down started to wear off lately.
Thanks for conduct, maybe a came off as harsh, but that's what I sometimes am.
IMO "wear off" are somewhat weird words to describe what is happening, "revert" is what I understand clearer. To me "wear off" means overcoming effects of the changes of regulations by the natural progression of the car development. As as I said before F1 coped just fine, beating qualifying speeds from 1994 already in 2000 despite smaller engines, grooved tyres and narrower cars.
gold333 wrote:Yes you would have seen 7-8g cornering forces in 2000-2005 already, had Weickershof not been implemented post Senna's death. In fact mid way through 1993 there was talk of introducing G-suits for F1 drivers in the period 1995-1998 if development continued at the then current rate. The 1993 electronic cars with hydraulic and electronic brakes inc. ABS were braking at 6.5G on some tracks already.
What's the point of having cars that can't be driven to the limit for the whole race? G-suits would not be as effective in F1 as on planes, as the direction of forces are different. G-suit could have worked for braking, but braking events are short and blood just doesn't run out to the legs as fast (fortunately for drivers). Lateral G-forces are a bigger concern, and for lateral forces G-suites would not work. Combine those G-forces with temperature, vibrations, jolts from hitting bumps and curbs, and I think soon you would see physical damage to the drivers from simply driving the car on the limit.
Also, why do you think ABS helps peak acceleration? It's extremely hard to lock wheels on F1 cars at the start of the braking event where peak deceleration is happening due to all the DF car produces. I remember the record deceleration was posted by Frentzen at Imola at 1997.
gold333 wrote:All I said is that I wondered what a current F1 car would have looked like had those castrating changes (grooved tires, narrow body, tires, stepped bottom, etc.) not been implemented and Senna had not died.
Personally I don't much care how a car looks if it runs fast, there plenty of ugly cars pre-1994 and plenty of beautiful ones after. But that's me.
I do get the interest but you have to remember that at least 50 kilo and possibly more out of the weight limit we have now is due to the tub strengthening for safety which permits FIA to allow wider track and bigger tyres again.
Remember the current F1 drivers trying out cars from early 90s and 80s commenting how thin the tubs are. This is why we have "bloated" cars.
To me safety come first and I will argue with anybody complaining how current cars have "too much safety". I don't mean you personally, but this sentiment comes up from time to time.

michl420
michl420
8
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:08 pm
Location: Austria

Re: F1 2017 bloated / overweight 728 kg (vs e.g. 1991)

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A specialty in the Formula 1 for me was always the low vehicle weight. Many Sports cars today have 900 hp, but the weight in the Formula 1 makes the cars special. And I also believe that every team in 2017 could build a car with 700 kg without problems. And to say it again, weight distribution by rules is ridiculous.